Commercial Posting...was Sue Miller's Catalog

[gherlt]

IMHO ....
- Sue Miller wouldn't pay "hundreds" for support, I suspect. My feeling (I have been and will be customer) is that she is already known to this community, she is one of the usual suspects. And a fine one. Now, her web and the "online" behaiviour does indicates a more offline business. Everytime its better to call her than to email her. That indicates her preference.
- Her catalogue isn't a catalogue, it is a pricelist. The usefullness is limited, I have to email, or better call her for details. I would not consider this "marketing" or commercial activity.
- She sends it out easily, yes. But as I am not in the UK, it hurts me a bit asking her for a pricelist, when I am "just looking". So this posting is clearly helpful for me.
- It has been download X-times, yes, but how many of them already have the catalogue and look for updating it
I download a lot of stuff, just in case I later need it or someone decides to take it offline. Also, what I have on my PC I dont need on paper, much more enviromental friendly.
- The consideration of publishing catalogues in a forum is difficult to handle, yes, but I consider it usefull to find catalogues in one place, in the forum, rather that searching throughout the web.

[jcocking]

I am somewhat confused by the above and what that all means for the "business and vendor listings" section.

Good question.

The Business and Vendor Listing sections will be replaced by a Vendor directory in the Wiki. The plan is for the directory to list basic contact and description of the business.

jeff

[gordont]

oh dear, I cant believe the amount of posts on this... shouldn't we be out driving?
Seems to me that the catalogue in question was not posted by the business but by a helpful member hoping to assist others - and that's what it is all about isn't it?
I think would be entirely different if businesses tried posting their own catalogues on here, but that is not the case.
There must be 3-4 dealers selling parts for elans in the UK and less in the USA etc so I am guessing we all know who they are and we all have our favourites.
Lets get back out on the road chaps (and chapettes) before the thought police really take over.

[RichardS]

oh dear, I cant believe the amount of posts on this... shouldn't we be out driving?.

Quite agree Gordon!
Richard

[jcocking]

Seems to me that the catalogue in question was not posted by the business but by a helpful member hoping to assist others - and that's what it is all about isn't it?

No, it is not about a catalog being posted. It is about whether LotusElan.net will be financially viable or not.

Based on the feedback within this post, the membership overwhelming believes posting a catalog/price list is not a commercial posting.

This removes a primary incentive for being a sponsor of the website. This change removes a planned revenue stream of $700 to $1,000USD per year.

We went from breaking even this year to being in the red for $700 this year.

jeff

[StressCraxx]

Thanks Jeff. I see your point.

Regards,
Dan

[rgh0]

Hi Jeff
It appears that the commercial realities of maximising advertising income to enable the sites ongoing operation is potentially conflicting with the sites primary aim in my view at least of maximising information available to Lotus Elan owners.

The reason I contribute heavily to the site is that for the first 20 years of my Elan ownership the commercial aims of the people with knowledge about Elans - which was a couple of local experts for me here in Australia - conflicted with my need to understand how to look after my car and keep it reliable on the road and track in a cost effective way. As I learned over 20 years through applied engineering analysis, trial and error and the bits and pieces of information I gleaned from others, I always aimed to spread the learnings so others would not have to go through the same challenges that I experienced and struggled to get information on to resolve problems.

When the internet came along the spreading and pooling of knowledge on a worldwide basis became possible via sites like this. This meant that commercial suppliers could not limit information available to the benefit of their businesses and had to rely on service and quality and price and not ignorance by their customers of the options available. I would hate for the commercial interests of a few to again restrict this spreading of knowledge for many.

We need to find a funding model for LotusElan.net that does not restrict the spread of information and knowledge IMHO. Paid advertisers and sponsors should benefit from premium placement and other simlar methods they should not benefit by restricting the data about other suppliers

regards
Rohan

[UAB807F]

(edited quote)
This removes a primary incentive for being a sponsor of the website. This change removes a planned revenue stream of $700 to $1,000USD per year.

We went from breaking even this year to being in the red for $700 this year.

jeff

This saddens, although does not surprise me. I was hoping after the discussions earlier in the year that we might have turned the corner on this one. But we don't seem to have any sponsorships in the appropriate sections, or at least I've not got any on my monitor, and I remember that although subscriptions were up, they still didn't meet the predicted running costs.

I get the feeling that you (Jeff) don't like to keep harping on about this funding issue and don't like to be continually asking for contributions ? I understand that and it does you credit, but it ain't paying the bills and we said earlier in the year that we didn't want you to be subsidizing the forum.

Again I don't know if there's been a request sent to potential sponsors or what, if any, their reactions have been but it's clear from your comment that we aren't coping financially. (again)

I think you/we need to bring this to greater prominence and get the cold facts out to the general populace because only people reading this thread will know of the latest situation. It really does need to be a top page item or a stickie topic at the head of the forums.

Brian

ps - I'm not sure this type of posting does remove the incentive for sponsorship. I guess it depends how much you're expecting per business and how that relates to their overall sales though.

[jimj]

Well this fuss about nothing has brought the financial situation to my notice and I`ve clicked on the donate button at the bottom of the page. Let`s all do that.
Jim

[AlfaLofa]

I`ve clicked on the donate button at the bottom of the page. Let`s all do that.
Jim

Ditto

[MickG]

Hi Jeff,
I agree with Brians and Rohans posts above. It?s not acceptable for you to have to keep subsidising any losses incurred while running this site for the pleasure of others. Asking for money is always an embarrassing situation to be in. If people were to realise that this site may no longer exist then maybe more would donate.
Maybe the Support LotusElan.net clickey (sorry don?t know the correct name) needs to be in a more prominent position. Something that I think was suggested some time ago.
Just a thought but as Webmaster I assume you could easily PM all current/active members. Would it not therefore be possible to inform members of the current situation and the desire for a small contribution to keep this web site in the black and not paid for out of your pocket. I?ll leave the wording up to you.
Just my thoughts

Mick G

[Spyder fan]

On topic The posting of Sue Millers price list was not a commercial posting IMHO.

On the Fundraising tangent topic slip subject

Change the terms of usage for the "parts for sale by individuals"

Ebay charges 10% of the sale on average, why do we charge nothing here for members? maybe parts under $75 dollars value (?50) can be advertised free to encourage sales of those small hard to get little parts that some of us have stashed in the shed, but anything over this value should have a fee payable on a successful sale. I'm not talking 10% like Ebay, perhaps 2.5% up to a maximum of $20 (?15)

[UAB807F]

I agree Alan, most forums either make a small charge or require you to be a contributing member. That sounds fairly simple to operate as Jeff is already keeping tabs on contributors ? It could even be applied to the "wanted" ads as well, which are probably far more valuable in targeting the best possible market.

Brian

[elansprint]

Jeff I had no idea of the cost of running this wonderful resource which I visit most days I have just made a donation. Back to topic the post was made by a member for helping members and not by Sue Miller. My own experience is of excellent service and quality parts and as I do a similar thing with triumph stags I suspect sue is the same it is not a large enough business to make a reasonable living off and unlike other vendors Sue does not sell or service cars at fairly high prices but only supplies parts and as such cannot afford a large advertising budget. She is an enthusiast and her return on the capital invested in stock must be very small.
Ian

[collins_dan]

Thank you Jeff for all your efforts. Donation made. Money well spent.
Dan