Commercial Posting...was Sue Miller's Catalog

[AHM]

Great! That is really useful and Sue is a truly great person to do business with. But...

I think we have missed a few steps here.
Did anyone ask Jeff?
Is Sue sponsoring the site?
Paying for advertising?

At the moment it appears that Jeff is paying to host the list.
How will he attract other sponsors?
Who has organised a LotusElan.net discount?

We are a rather captive audience and that has a premium.

[pharriso]

I believe Jeff is quite capable of voicing his objections if he has concerns.

I have no problem removing the price lists if Jeff asks me to.

This is why we have so many observers & so few contributors....

[jcocking]

This is why we have so many observers & so few contributors....

Please explain?

[512BB]

Phil wrote: This is why we have so many observers & so few contributors

Jeff wrote: Please explain

I think what Phil was trying to articulate, was that some are very quick to criticize what others write, rightly or wrongly, and that is why we have so many observers, and so few contributors, because folk are afraid they will be shot down.

Truth is, if you want to contribute to a public forum, you have be prepared to be shot down if you write a load of crap, and appluded if you write or contribute something of interest.

Further truth is, that Phil thought he was doing good, and he probably was.

And how do we know Simon, if he did not ask Jeff in a PM for permission to publish?

If we are going down the route of fairness, would it not be correct to publish all the usual suspects catalogue's or at least asking them if they would like their catalogue published, and then asking them if they would like to make a contribution to the site?

Leslie

[rgh0]

There is a section for commercial suppliers and the catalogue post should probably go there I believe. All suppliers have the opportunity to put their ads / catalogues etc there and it should be encouraged.

Any member who helps suppliers do this I fully support.

A public and open market for our parts needs to be encouraged and supported as it is an essential element in keeping our cars usable and on the road.

cheers
Rohan

[robertverhey]

Very happy to see sue' s updated catalog here, my hard copy was way out of date. In my view it doesn't give her any kind of advantage, when I need parts I always check out all the suppliers' catalogs. I gather sue probably doesn't have the time to prepare a fancy website like some of the others, and if that keeps prices down, fine by me!

[AHM]

I believe Jeff is quite capable of voicing his objections if he has concerns.....

As do I - You will notice that I did not express an opinion on his behalf.

This is why we have so many observers & so few contributors....

Yes, please do explain.

I support Sue M and having this is a great resource. But I also support Lotuselan.net, which reading previous discussions has to be paid for. The internet is driven my advertising revenue.

What better than Sue sponsoring the site? Good for all!

[jcocking]

These type of posts are the most challenging.

Phil posted a resource that is helpful to many people. The parts catalog is helpful to Elan owners to understand what parts are available and what are current costs. Phil's intentions were to help other Elan owners. This is what LotusElan.net is all about. Helping one another.

Simon, AHM, asked some interesting questions. Simon has been very supportive in ensuring we keep LotusElan.net financially viable. Simon's intentions were to help other Elan owners by keeping LotusElan.net available. Equally as important.

By posting the catalog:

• Sue Miller saves money in having her primary marketing tool shown to 15,000 potential customers.
• Sue Miller receives additional sales from owners seeing the catalog.
• Sue Miller avoids overhead expenses because owners do not have to call and inquire about costs.
• Lotus Elan owners have an understanding of available parts
• Lotus Elan owners have an understanding of current costs.
• LotusElan.net costs money to operate ($250 USD/month)

We have heard from Phil's and Simon's perspective. What do other members think?

Does a company need to be a sponsor of the website ($100 USD/year) in order to have it's catalog posted? Or is the value to the members the reason the members contribute to the website?

What do you think?

jeff

[AHM]

Further truth is, that Phil thought he was doing good, and he probably was.

I quite agree.

And how do we know Simon, if he did not ask Jeff in a PM for permission to publish?

We don't Leslie. As a stickler for reading what was written you will notice the question marks.

I see a very clear line between commercial interests and the private poster.

I just read Jeff's post above so won't comment further.
Edit. Except to say what about the member's discount? Don't forget our interests here Jeff.

[theelanman]

Sue has not asked for her catalogue up here.....
if you want one she will send to you......

I don't see this post being a problem

[theelanman]

Very happy to see sue' s updated catalog here, my hard copy was way out of date. In my view it doesn't give her any kind of advantage, when I need parts I always check out all the suppliers' catalogs. I gather sue probably doesn't have the time to prepare a fancy website like some of the others, and if that keeps prices down, fine by me!

I agree.....

[UAB807F]

(edited quote to cut down on page length)

• Sue Miller saves money in having her primary marketing tool shown to 15,000 potential customers.
• Sue Miller receives additional sales from owners seeing the catalog.
• Sue Miller avoids overhead expenses because owners do not have to call and inquire about costs.
• Lotus Elan owners have an understanding of available parts
• Lotus Elan owners have an understanding of current costs.
• LotusElan.net costs money to operate ($250 USD/month)

We have heard from Phil's and Simon's perspective. What do other members think?
jeff

Ok, this may be controversial... (but it's never stopped me before )

My impression of Sue Miller is that she runs a business 95% for the love of it. I'm sure she makes money but this isn't Shell or Exxon we're talking about here, it's niche market stuff. I'll be willing to bet her hourly wage is well below the market rate simply because she's so helpful in the way she conducts her business.

So, what value has she got from this post ? Well, her catalog is now easily available in pdf format, which is both good. It's not necessarily better for Sue because now she has no control over it, whereas when she sends out paper copies on request, she does have control. That's not a criticism of Phil's action, I was quick to download a copy myself and glad for it, but there are other ways of looking at it.

Secondly she may well receive extra sales. How many ? I suspect relatively few as a direct result of this post. Think about it - if anyone started a thread asking "where do I get XXX from ?" Sue Miller's name would pop up on the first page simply because of her reputation. So in real, hard nosed business terms, this is doing very little to enhance her millions.

Third point, well I'm really not sure about saving overhead costs. Phil has created a pdf which I suspect is a big help for Sue, but the reality is that it's a bigger help for us on the forums. She'll save some postage stamps for sure, but not that much in reality. It's not as if she employs a team of folks stuffing envelopes for her, is it ?

Finally Jeff, there's been comment about bringing in sponsors and almost in the same breath about negotiating discounts. I have no problem with asking for sponsorship, advertising is a sensible income stream for the site and there's a payback for the sponsor as well.

But I'm going to be unpopular now. Quite frankly I think if a business does contribute financially to support the site then we, as members, have already had "our" discount in supporting a website which we all use. And that goes not just for Sue Miller, but any other company who chips into the pot.....

Brian

[jcocking]

Ok, this may be controversial... (but it's never stopped me before )

I want to hear different perspectives. I would like to believe my preferences are the correct one, but I have been married to long to be allowed those thoughts.

My impression of Sue Miller is that she runs a business 95% for the love of it. I'm sure she makes money but this isn't Shell or Exxon we're talking about here, it's niche market stuff. I'll be willing to bet her hourly wage is well below the market rate simply because she's so helpful in the way she conducts her business.

Please do not take these discussions as criticism about Sue Miller. I have never met her, but everyone speaks very respectfully of her. This is an interesting conundrum concerning commercial concerns.

So, what value has she got from this post ? Well, her catalog is now easily available in pdf format, which is both good. It's not necessarily better for Sue because now she has no control over it, whereas when she sends out paper copies on request, she does have control. That's not a criticism of Phil's action, I was quick to download a copy myself and glad for it, but there are other ways of looking at it.

The value is awareness of product offering. I personally did not know the breadth of Sue's product offering. It costs a substantial sum of money to place your product offerings where it will be viewed by potential buyers. Think about the number of advertisements and commercials you see everyday. All this advertising is to get products in front of you as a potential buyer.

In my marketing days, we would spent a lot of money to have our materials given to potential qualified buyers. So far the catalog has been downloaded 340 times. From a pure advertising perspective, this post is worth several thousand dollars in advertising.

Secondly she may well receive extra sales. How many ? I suspect relatively few as a direct result of this post. Think about it - if anyone started a thread asking "where do I get XXX from ?" Sue Miller's name would pop up on the first page simply because of her reputation. So in real, hard nosed business terms, this is doing very little to enhance her millions.

I think you would be amazed at the number of sales the forums generate. I have spoken with several of the larger parts shops in the US. When the members discuss, they buy. When we have in-depth conversations about CV conversions, sales go up. The best line I heard was, "If we see sales increasing on a particular part, we know it is being discussed on the forums.".

Third point, well I'm really not sure about saving overhead costs. Phil has created a pdf which I suspect is a big help for Sue, but the reality is that it's a bigger help for us on the forums. She'll save some postage stamps for sure, but not that much in reality. It's not as if she employs a team of folks stuffing envelopes for her, is it ?

What are the savings for not printing and mailing out 150 catalogs? I am assuming a couple hundred.

Finally Jeff, there's been comment about bringing in sponsors and almost in the same breath about negotiating discounts. I have no problem with asking for sponsorship, advertising is a sensible income stream for the site and there's a payback for the sponsor as well.

But I'm going to be unpopular now. Quite frankly I think if a business does contribute financially to support the site then we, as members, have already had "our" discount in supporting a website which we all use. And that goes not just for Sue Miller, but any other company who chips into the pot.....

Brian

I agree with all of your items. I can also support the other perspective. I can go either way on this.

What do other members think....

Would it be different if it was one of the major parts houses, like Paul's or Dave's?

jeff

[elancoupe]

A few brief comments:

No problem with the posting of the catalog

Phil's last comment is spot on

I have belonged to many, many message boards, not just automotive related. All boards have some problems, but by far, the number one problem that I see is money. I am fully cognizant that it takes money to make good places like this run, but trying to beat every last buck out of people is a step in the wrong direction, IMO.

Paid sponsorships bring more than just money to a site - they bring expectations, both good and bad.

[UAB807F]

(edited quote)
I would like to believe my preferences are the correct one, but I have been married to long to be allowed those thoughts.

ditto. in fact I often get reminded when I forget and make the wrong choices.....

When the members discuss, they buy. When we have in-depth conversations about CV conversions, sales go up. The best line I heard was, "If we see sales increasing on a particular part, we know it is being discussed on the forums.".

I agree entirely, I've been moved to buy items when they've been discussed.

That's the key word though, "discussed" and not just advertised. Which means that I learn about the experiences of end-users, some of whom I have great respect for their abilities & judgements, rather than just reading an advert from someone with a vested interest in selling me something.

So the real value for the sponsor comes not in having an advertisement on a page, but having end-users discuss their products or services, or at least that's how it is with me. I think that's what I'd sell to a sponsor, although of course they'd get the sidebar adverts or whatever as something tangible.

(reference to discounts)
Would it be different if it was one of the major parts houses, like Paul's or Dave's?
jeff

Not in my view Jeff. The market for Elan parts is, despite the PR and increasing value of our cars, still a small one. So I'd like to keep these people in business and encourage them to develop and re-introduce obsolete parts rather than give me 10% off my next order.

Again with my "hard nosed business" head on, if I'm one of two suppliers of widgets for the Elan, or I've just invested to re-introduce an obsolete widget, then the chances are I'll get your sale anyway. I have my own website to advertise on (they all do ?) and I know that in such a small community word will spread rapidly. So why should I discount ?

Admittedly if I'm one of ten suppliers it's different, but the reality is that as Lotus owners we don't have a massive source of good quality parts. The common phrase here is "have you tried the usual suspects ?" which infers that we've got a relatively short list to go at.

I can accept a different view for the non-specialists though.

For example, a tyre supplier or Insurance company will sell across a much broader spectrum and as such have a more competitive market. They might consider a discount as a good "hook" to pull in business from an area they wouldn't otherwise touch. Personally I'd sooner they contribute more sponsorship rather than give me the discount because I'd get better value in having Lotuselan.net running securely than a couple of quid off my tyres, etc.

Right, I've waffled on for long enough. I'm not knocking anyone's efforts or viewpoints it's just typical internet "IMHO" stuff....

Brian