Lotus Elan

Continuous Insurance Enforcement (CIE) in UK

PostPost by: bcmc33 » Fri Jan 28, 2011 12:20 pm

I was sent this information that may be of interest to UK members. I personally thought the essence of the information was obvious, but perhaps it may not be so to everyone.

Will the Continuous Insurance Enforcement scheme affect Classic Car owners?
A few days ago I was driving to Cambridge to visit my sister and her distinctly ginger haired boy child. I decided to pop in on one of our classic car insurance company advertisers on the way up. Often these meetings will focus heavily on how the company in question is offering a 5% discount and that we should be writing about this ?fantastic offer? as if it was actual news.

However, in this instance, it didn?t go like that at all and was actually extremely interesting and fruitful. I had been trying to get hold of some stats on agreed valuations for a while and the conversation I had with this insurer has just succeeded in giving me a wider impression on classic values than just looking at auction results. I?ll write about this soon.

But moving on to the point of today?s article, something else interesting came up at that meeting that I hadn?t been aware of. In 2006, the government passed a new Road Safety Act, which amongst other things, introduced Continuous Insurance Enforcement (CIE). I usually find that anything government related that has been boiled down to an acronym is usually best ignored but if you?re a classic car owner or own multiple vehicles this is something you?ll want to pay attention to.

This scheme, despite becoming law in 2006, still hasn?t actually taken affect and was in fact meant to be starting this month. However, this has been put on hold and according to the Department for Transport spokesperson I spoke to, who clearly wished they had a different job, this will now probably be starting in April or May.

Continuous insurance is exactly what it sounds like. It means if you have a car that is taxed, it must also be insured at all times, or else be SORN declared. (Non UK readers, SORN means ?statutory off road notification?.)

If you have a taxed car that is not insured you will be sent a letter telling you to get insured. Failure to do so will result in a ?100 fixed penalty. Continuing to flout this will result in fines of up to ?2000.

To clarify, even if you have a classic car that is taxed, as part of a private collection, on private land, you will have to ensure it is insured all the while the tax is valid. Before coming back to the ramifications for classic owners I should explain the reasons why this law was enacted.

In the UK we have one of the worst records for uninsured drivers in Europe. Currently you will pay ?30 on every insurance policy you have to fund uninsured drivers. This scheme is designed solely to curb people driving while uninsured and looking at the stats you can understand why. Uninsured drivers are three times more likely to be convicted of driving without due care and attention; 6 times more likely to drive an unsafe vehicle and 10 times more likely to have a drink driving offence.

As things currently stand, the police can only take action on an uninsured driver if they actually catch them on the roads committing an offence.

On hearing of yet another interfering Government scheme, I was all riled up and ready to write an article moaning the amount of red tape involved in motoring these days. But I can?t.
If this scheme makes it easier to keep uninsured drivers off the roads, when the statistics prove they cost the average motorist money and that they are more likely to be dangerous drivers, then it would be stupid to attack the CIE.

However this will affect owners of classic cars and people with more than one vehicle, as you will probably have deduced yourself by now. If you have 6 MGBs sitting outside your house there is a good chance only one is insured full time and you put the others on for a day when you want to drive them. You won?t be able to do this anymore.

In addition if your tax runs out in December and your insurance in October and you don?t plan on driving the car for two months, you will need to SORN your car to ensure you don?t fall foul of the law.

But these are the only instances where I can see this really affecting people. From what I understand dealer insurance will remain the same. And owners who have 30 cars in a collection probably have the majority registered as off the road anyway.
Furthermore increasing numbers of insurers deal with multi-car policies these days and for people with more than two cars this is certainly something you want to look at when this law is enacted.

So looking at this overall only a very few people will be affected. This isn?t going to change any of these people?s lives. This won?t stop classic ownership and in truth I don?t have much of a reason for opposing it.

As such I can?t gripe about the CIE and for once I?m siding with the safety campaigners. I want uninsured drivers off the roads and this is a good way to stop them. For me it means a minor inconvenience but for the young woman who doesn?t lose her ability to walk because she doesn?t get hit by an uninsured, drink driver I?m willing to pay a little more for insurance.

Sometimes it is fun to jump the anti government band wagon and moan about the DELA or the Daft. I?m still anti speed-bumps and anti speed-cameras and am contemplating writing a cooking book about the different ways to fry a traffic warden, but in this instance common sense has won.

So to conclude, I would ask that when this does come into effect in April or May and you read a reactionary article in the classic car press, about how this will cost you more, you try to think of all the people this will make safer.

I have just realised in that last paragraph, I sounded at best humanitarian and at worst a supporter of ?The Big Society?. This means it?s clearly time for me to go to the pub.
Brian Clarke
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PostPost by: Jason1 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:57 am

Hi

It is a bit of a pain if you use your car for a few months and put it away but as I understand it if you have a current SORN then there is no requirement to insure the vehicle. So you just need to insure that you return any tax disc and fill in the SORN as soon as the insurance expires.

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PostPost by: ken ob » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:08 pm

It has to be a good idea to have our cars insured all year round in case of theft.

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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:15 pm

Jason1 wrote:Hi

It is a bit of a pain if you use your car for a few months and put it away but as I understand it if you have a current SORN then there is no requirement to insure the vehicle. So you just need to insure that you return any tax disc and fill in the SORN as soon as the insurance expires.

Jason

That's it, exactly, Jason.

From what I understand, it appears quite common practice to insure classic cars for only 6 months a year on the road, but maintain the annual free car tax (pre 1973). You can still insure for 6 months but will need to SORN the car for the other 6 months. A real PITA.
My brother did this for years with his MGB, but stopped about 5 years ago when the insurance company made him aware of the new law.

AAMOI, my brother like a lot of people was under the mistaken belief that their garaged car was insured under their house policy for the uninsured 6 months.
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PostPost by: chrishewett » Sun Jan 30, 2011 5:01 pm

As most uninsured drivers don't register their vehicles either this will make almost no difference to the number of uninsured drivers being captured by the police. Once again this is simply a new government money making scheme targeting mostly law abiding people and leaving the hard to catch criminals to get on with it.
The only way to deal with the problem is to go back to the old method of having police patrolling the roads and preventing crime instead of the modern method of reacting to crime. Get them out of the cctv camera rooms and have a presence on the roads. But maybe that won't be a revenue earner!
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PostPost by: billwill » Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:59 pm

I have off-road insurance for my SORNed Elan.

Presumably you could have off-road insurance for a taxed car if you were not going to take it on the road.
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PostPost by: billwill » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:02 pm

chrishewett wrote:As most uninsured drivers don't register their vehicles either this will make almost no difference to the number of uninsured drivers being captured by the police. Once again this is simply a new government money making scheme targeting mostly law abiding people and leaving the hard to catch criminals to get on with it.
The only way to deal with the problem is to go back to the old method of having police patrolling the roads and preventing crime instead of the modern method of reacting to crime. Get them out of the cctv camera rooms and have a presence on the roads. But maybe that won't be a revenue earner!
Chris



Oh, but they do patrol; in cars with cameras with Automatic Number Plate Recognition and with mobile links to the Motor Insurance Board & DVLC so they can tell if the car they are following is insured and taxed or not.
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PostPost by: chrishewett » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:50 pm

Yes Bill, but not enough.
When stopped they give a false name and address and are then lost to the system. This is what happens all the time in this country. Illegal east european lorry drivers, fly tippers, people who clone number plates and then drive in bus lanes, park illegally and generally flout the law. I could go on. This does not happen in most other european countries where if you cannot provide proof of ownership and driving documents at the scene, you are not allowed to drive away.
I repeat, the law in this country makes it easy for criminals to prosper while attacking law abiding citizens who are an easy target.
As long as the public do not see this the situation will continue.
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PostPost by: billwill » Sat Feb 05, 2011 5:16 pm

chrishewett wrote:Yes Bill, but not enough.
When stopped they give a false name and address and are then lost to the system. This is what happens all the time in this country. Illegal east european lorry drivers, fly tippers, people who clone number plates and then drive in bus lanes, park illegally and generally flout the law. I could go on. This does not happen in most other european countries where if you cannot provide proof of ownership and driving documents at the scene, you are not allowed to drive away.
I repeat, the law in this country makes it easy for criminals to prosper while attacking law abiding citizens who are an easy target.
As long as the public do not see this the situation will continue.
Chris

It sounds as if you are out-of-date.

Since a few years ago, the police have the power to impound and crush cars that are unlicenced and uninsured.
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PostPost by: chrishewett » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:37 pm

I am not out of date Bill, in fact I am right up to date.
It just doesn't happen. I won't bore you with recent examples but I despair that people don't understand how this country is heading down hill.
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:41 pm

chrishewett wrote:Yes Bill, but not enough.
When stopped they give a false name and address and are then lost to the system. This is what happens all the time in this country. Illegal east european lorry drivers, fly tippers, people who clone number plates and then drive in bus lanes, park illegally and generally flout the law. I could go on. This does not happen in most other european countries where if you cannot provide proof of ownership and driving documents at the scene, you are not allowed to drive away.
I repeat, the law in this country makes it easy for criminals to prosper while attacking law abiding citizens who are an easy target.
As long as the public do not see this the situation will continue.
Chris

Oh dear; just about everything in your post is incorrect, including the punctuation.
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:38 pm

"Oh, but they do patrol; in cars with cameras with Automatic Number Plate Recognition and with mobile links to the Motor Insurance Board & DVLC so they can tell if the car they are following is insured and taxed or not"

OK...late last night a Hackney carriage hit my son's car, which was properly parked, and drove off. A witness contacted the police (good on 'im) and left a note on the car to let son know what he had seen. From the photo's appears car was shunted a sideways. Suspect it's a write off...with 3PFT cover.

When son contacted police today to find out "what's occurring", he was told he needed to produce documents! :?

The scene of all this? Swansea! A stones throw from the DVLA..... :?

Cheers - rd :x
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PostPost by: chrishewett » Mon Feb 07, 2011 7:04 pm

Resorting to declaring that I am wrong without any evidence and then to use cheap insults just makes you look very arrogant and stupid Pete. If that is the level of debate I shall stop posting.
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PostPost by: billwill » Wed Feb 09, 2011 2:23 am

ardee_selby wrote:"[i][b]
When son contacted police today to find out "what's occurring", he was told he needed to produce documents! :?

The scene of all this? Swansea! A stones throw from the DVLA..... :?

Cheers - rd :x



Can't see owt wrong with that, would you want the police to bother tracking down who damaged a car if that car was on-the road, untaxed and un-insured?
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PostPost by: 512BB » Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:16 am

Would they not know Bill, with the flick of a mouse, whether the car was MOTd, taxed and insured? And as you said, with ANPR, they would even know it from the comfort of their car!

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