Another shipping rant...

PostPost by: 512BB » Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:09 am

I would have taken it over to France myself Alan if you had offered me £640, and no GRIEF. I would have required a weeks stay FOC thrown in mind :D

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PostPost by: HCA » Wed Mar 23, 2022 8:25 am

For those of us on mainland Europe, does anyone know how all these charges are actually calculated?

I bit the bullet this morning and paid UPS their money. At payment stage, I received a breakdown, well, a sort of breakdown, that reads:

TVA. 3.70€
Brokerage charges. 18.51€
Freight charges. 0€
Government charges 726.0€

These I just do not understand! If all UPS are charging for their handling is 18.51 plus TVA of 3.70, then not bad I guess. So it is the Government who seem to be loading the charge.

The gearbox was 2,500GBP with 100GBP freight nett ex Voigt. Convert this to Euros at todays inter bank rate, totals: 3094€. I would expect to pay TVA of 619€ on this. So where/what is the extra 107€ I ask?

Does anyone know if there is also a duty on motor parts from brexitland into the EU. The 107€ is near enough 3.5% of the gearbox total, which sounds a likely amount for an import duty...

I have a call out to UPS for an explanation, but not holding my breath!
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PostPost by: TBG » Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:01 am

Instead of a Voight 5 speed try a 3:1 cwp!! Fits in a suitcase - simples!! Running for cover now.............D
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PostPost by: HCA » Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:08 pm

I had a call from a very nice lady from UPS!

They of course are inundated with parcels from the UK where they act as Customs Agents. The customs value is first worked out - usually the declared cost of the goods plus shipping, then an import duty according to the type of goods is applied before TVA on the total. It is these charges that make up 'Government Charges' and they are then allowed to charge an admin fee...

It gets extremely complicated for regular imports, but I lost her at the first hurdle.

The Customs make regular visits to assess that UPS are applying the correct dues and they make random checks on goods coming in to see if the goods match the description - if they do not, the goods are returned to the sender...

In my case, a 3% levy was put on the gearbox on the assumption it was for light use. It would have been 5% if they thought it was for a motorised Tank :D

So, thanks brexit. You are just what we needed :twisted:
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:42 pm

I don't think that you should have been charged the 3% levy. This comes under the Droits de douanes customs import duties which vary between 0-22%.

If you can prove that the goods imported originated from the UK, then under the Brexit agreement the levy should not be applied. If however the goods were purchased from the UK but originated from another non EU country such as China for example, then the levy will be applied.

sources here https://www.connexionfrance.com/article ... -to-France

and here https://www.douane.gouv.fr/actualites/a ... %20facture.

In addition to the shipping costs, you will have to pay additional costs. These are customs fees :

French VAT
Most often at a rate of 20 %.

The rights of customs
If the value of the shipment exceeds 150 euros, as well as for products that do not originate in the United Kingdom or the European Union, customs duties are to be paid among the customs charges.

If the product is of English origin and you have proof of origin, there will be no customs duties thanks to the agreements made between the United Kingdom and the European Union. Ask your seller and check that the origin of the goods is mentioned on the invoice.

Administration fees for service provision invoiced by the carrier
Carefully read the general conditions of sale (CGV or " Conditions of Use and Sale " in English) of the website to check whether customs duties and VAT are included in the sale price or are extra and must be paid at the receipt of the package. Generally, these costs are your responsibility and invoiced together upon receipt of the package by the carrier.
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PostPost by: HCA » Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:04 pm

Very interesting Alan!

I am sure that I did not misunderstand her, but maybe I should ask in more detail - maybe a visit to my local Duane? OK if I lost out on this one, but the next shipment is block, crank, head and everything to join them together that I would naturally rather not fork out another 3% :(

Edit
Just reading your attachment from the Duane and the origin bit, I remember now the UPS lady saying something about an attestastion regarding origin to be made by the seller. I was maybe a bit behind her and might not have fully taken it in. The box is physically with me tomorrow morning and might check carefully what is declared on the white sticker...

So here is a question. Someone makes up a gearbox with body cast in the UK, gears cut in the UK but fasteners have come in from China. What is the origin of said box if it is being sent to the EU?
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:25 pm

[quote="Spyder fan"]I don't think that you should have been charged the 3% levy. This comes under the Droits de douanes customs import duties which vary between 0-22%.

If you can prove that the goods imported originated from the UK, then under the Brexit agreement the levy should not be applied. If however the goods were purchased from the UK but originated from another non EU country such as China for example, then the levy will be applied.

sources here https://www.connexionfrance.com/article ... -to-France

and here https://www.douane.gouv.fr/actualites/a ... %20facture.

[quote]In addition to the shipping costs, you will have to pay additional costs. These are customs fees :

French VAT
Most often at a rate of 20 %.

The rights of customs
If the value of the shipment exceeds 150 euros, as well as for products that do not originate in the United Kingdom or the European Union, customs duties are to be paid among the customs charges.

If the product is of English origin and you have proof of origin, there will be no customs duties thanks to the agreements made between the United Kingdom and the European Union. Ask your seller and check that the origin of the goods is mentioned on the invoice.

Administration fees for service provision invoiced by the carrier
Carefully read the general conditions of sale (CGV or " Conditions of Use and Sale " in English) of the website to check whether customs duties and VAT are included in the sale price or are extra and must be paid at the receipt of the package. Generally, these costs are your responsibility and invoiced together upon receipt of the package by the carrier. [/quote][/quote]
It's ok to say this but in reality it doesn't work.
My Hardtop was for a TVR 3000S made in UK in original Blackpool Rocket Mould and i still got canned by the "doit de Douannes".
Brexit c'est casse Pieds donc le merde.
C'est la vie mon ami.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:51 pm

HCA wrote:Very interesting Alan!

I am sure that I did not misunderstand her, but maybe I should ask in more detail - maybe a visit to my local Duane? OK if I lost out on this one, but the next shipment is block, crank, head and everything to join them together that I would naturally rather not fork out another 3% :(

Edit
Just reading your attachment from the Duane and the origin bit, I remember now the UPS lady saying something about an attestastion regarding origin to be made by the seller. I was maybe a bit behind her and might not have fully taken it in. The box is physically with me tomorrow morning and might check carefully what is declared on the white sticker...

So here is a question. Someone makes up a gearbox with body cast in the UK, gears cut in the UK but fasteners have come in from China. What is the origin of said box if it is being sent to the EU?


I'm no expert on this, but as I understand it if the item is assembled and manufactured in a non EU country then it should have a non UK origin status. If however the item is substantially produced / assembled/ manufactured in the UK including the use of non UK non EU parts it is acceptable to state it's origin as UK.

It is the responsibility of the producer/seller to state the origin of the product on the invoice for customs.

The unholy mess that is Brexit and the consequences for us in the UK and Europe is the responsibility of the 52% of idiots in the UK who voted leave. And the big red bus has a lot to answer for as well :mrgreen:

It's easier for the couriers and customs to just charge the levies, that way they can reduce their paperwork and costs at the expense of us all. They know how to do this and tick the right boxes, job done, shrug shoulders, blame Brexit and the UK,
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PostPost by: miked » Wed Mar 23, 2022 5:41 pm

Mentally challenged, idiots, stupidity. I think this thread is getting a little out of hand about the people who voted Brexit. I would never write words like this about persons with opinons different than myself.
I think we need to have a read back and reflect on these comments. Bit much!
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Wed Mar 23, 2022 5:55 pm

Ok,
Let's stay polite.
All i can say i've lived in France for 30 Years and consider myself European. I want freedom of movement and peace. I don't want to return to a false past glory that never was usurping peoples lands.
Let's just agree to differ.
Sorry for the thread drift.
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PostPost by: ericbushby » Wed Mar 23, 2022 5:59 pm

Thank you Mike, I agree.
As one of the people who voted with the majority to leave the EU, I am getting fed up with being criticised for having an opinion which differs from the minority. Losers do tend to complain a lot though. I try to not express opinions on this forum but I just had to this time. There will be no more I promise.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Wed Mar 23, 2022 9:00 pm

miked wrote:Mentally challenged, idiots, stupidity. I think this thread is getting a little out of hand about the people who voted Brexit. I would never write words like this about persons with opinons different than myself.
I think we need to have a read back and reflect on these comments. Bit much!


Oops! Sorry Mike and anyone else offended, being an idiot isn’t mutually exclusive it seems.
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PostPost by: HCA » Thu Mar 24, 2022 8:03 am

Forgive me, but i shall not be joining the love-in :D

I care not a jot about your individual opinions. What I do care about is that by inanely placing your X where you did has hit freedom of movement and trade. In my case, along with thousands of others across the UK and EU, we have been subjected to arbitrary demands for money that we know nothing about other than it has to be paid. In my case, 200€ yesterday, and maybe three times this coming down the line when the engine parts arrive.

Please do not imagine that I am happy to pay this with a smile and say how wonderful you are so as not upset your sensitivites :D
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Mar 24, 2022 9:26 am

HCA wrote:Forgive me, but i shall not be joining the love-in :D

I care not a jot about your individual opinions. What I do care about is that by inanely placing your X where you did has hit freedom of movement and trade. In my case, along with thousands of others across the UK and EU, we have been subjected to arbitrary demands for money that we know nothing about other than it has to be paid. In my case, 200€ yesterday, and maybe three times this coming down the line when the engine parts arrive.

Please do not imagine that I am happy to pay this with a smile and say how wonderful you are so as not upset your sensitivites :D


Shouldn't your displeasure be aimed at the French customs authorities? I think that you shouldn't be paying the levies, and that the rules of the Brexit agreement are not being implemented correctly. The UK is no longer part of the EU and that's a shame in my opinion, but it happened democratically and now we all have to move on.
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PostPost by: englishmaninwales » Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:07 am

Spyder fan wrote:
HCA wrote:Forgive me, but i shall not be joining the love-in :D

I care not a jot about your individual opinions. What I do care about is that by inanely placing your X where you did has hit freedom of movement and trade. In my case, along with thousands of others across the UK and EU, we have been subjected to arbitrary demands for money that we know nothing about other than it has to be paid. In my case, 200€ yesterday, and maybe three times this coming down the line when the engine parts arrive.

Please do not imagine that I am happy to pay this with a smile and say how wonderful you are so as not upset your sensitivites :D


Shouldn't your displeasure be aimed at the French customs authorities? I think that you shouldn't be paying the levies, and that the rules of the Brexit agreement are not being implemented correctly……


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