Lotus Elan and Lotus Elan Plus 2 Forums

I'm a full-on Believer (with a capital B), and would find life shallow and depressing otherwise. And in my periods of doubt, Paschal's odds theory has provided all the rational reason I've needed to keep the faith!

Good on you Henry.
I`m not with you, but I respect you for coming on here and stating your belief.
You are the first one.
Eric in Burnley

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

So you don't believe in their Creator? So what? You have the same rights as my dog?

ericbushby wrote:Good on you Henry.
I`m not with you, but I respect you for coming on here and stating your belief.
You are the first one.
Eric in Burnley

Thanks Eric - it isn't the first and likely won't be the last time I'm odd man out!

I should add, though, that I acknowledge that "organized religion" has been responsible for some very real atrocities, at both corporate/societal levels (eg crusades, inquisition) and individual levels (eg child molestation/abuse) - and so I understand why some are turned off by either personal experience or by what they see and perceive. I also recognize that we too often come off as holier than thou jackasses. I sincerely apologize to all of you who have experienced or seen or perceived some of the ugliness done in the name of Christianity. In my opinion, those of us who say we follow Christ need to recognize and atone for malevolent actions done in the name of our faith.

To be sure, organized religion and churches are human institutions and subject to the same human flaws as any other group or organization (we Christians are every bit as sinful as non-Christians) - but inasmuch as we proclaim the "good news", I also agree that religion and churches should be held to a higher standard. To be a "light on the hill", not a burning cross on the hill. But religion's flaws are further evidence, to me, that we need a God that can carry the burden of our flaws and inadequacies, that human effort alone cannot reconcile humanity with itself or fix all issues or conquer all division, etc., etc., etc. My faith makes me 100% confident that a God exists that is fully capable of this and much more, and what's more that His plan is in action even now, even when I cannot see it directly in the too frequently divided and ugly world around me. That is the great hope and joy and expectation for me and why I am a part of the Church - and why I said earlier I'd find this world depressing and rather hopeless without faith.

Sorry for the lengthy addition, and feel a little odd having written it given the forum we're on. To be clear, I have no intent of forcing this onto anyone or of debating beliefs, but as the topic was started and has had some response it seems there is at least some curiosity and interest in learning and discussing where others place their faith, hope, confidence, etc. Pretty cool even if unexpected, and I'm open to listening, learning, and contributing if the thread continues.

But for now, I've got an engine to get back together and lots to learn from the experts here about all things Lotus!

USA64 wrote:We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

So you don't believe in their Creator? So what? You have the same rights as my dog?

Not sure what you are trying to say here?

SENC wrote:I should add, though, that I acknowledge that "organized religion" has been responsible for some very real atrocities, at both corporate/societal levels (eg crusades, inquisition) and individual levels (eg child molestation/abuse) - and so I understand why some are turned off by either personal experience or by what they see and perceive.

But for now, I've got an engine to get back together and lots to learn from the experts here about all things Lotus!

Everything happens for a reason, you can only learn from the past. I am proud of where we are, albeit way too much pollution though worst of all financial inequality.
I suspect society could do more to help those who have experienced negative things. Which is what a organized "church" should be. Schools which should be able to help people, for the system and for society. Suppose this also touches on modern immigration etc. As I feel Canada went to crap after the 1990 Gulf war, as all schools needed metal detectors and security, gangs and shootings. Lets face it, most who move here contribute positively, you just can't be sure. While Western morals founded this society, people move here and want it their way. Rather than fitting into the great history and why it is.
I do not believe in any of this modern defacing or falling of statues. Columbus, MacDonald here in Canada. If it weren't for these great people, our societies would not be. Further, slaves have been traded by the first tribes not just by middle age white dudes before there were even whites on the planet-maybe. Slaves, unfortunately is only considered as a modern thing, and I am sure there are some Nazi, Cambodian, even American and Canadian modern ugliness. I doubt very highly this will continue without record.

elanfan1 wrote:Remember the dyslexic atheist who didn’t believe in Dog.

I thought that was an insomniac , dyslexic, atheist who was always waking in the middle of the night wondering if there really was a Dog.

I guess religious jokes are pretty easy but one of the more interesting ones I've heard of late was by, I suspect, Ricky Gervais.

A holocaust survivor, having died, went to Heaven.
He was telling a Holocaust joke to God, who didn't get it.
"Mmmmmm...." said the survivor.
You probably needed to be there....

reb53 wrote:I guess religious jokes are pretty easy

One of my favorite bumper stickers:

"In case of Rapture, can I have your car?"

We have access to a variety of religions and if anyone feels the needs to engage with them fine by me.

Then you have the sub/quasi "religions" as discussed by Marx, Engels and many others and again, whatever starts your car is fine by me.

This is my "religion" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0VTHLa_SgE

Lord, save me from your followers!

Not just a sky fairy but a MAGIC sky fairy!

There may indeed be an overall intelligence in the universe. We will never know. In a Universe of countless (to all purposes) stars and planets the idea that he / she / it would have a little plan for every single entity is patently nonsense. Especially as it is a plan that could be changed by praying. What rubbish.

A Universe intelligence - Maybe
The Albrahamic Trio - self serving drivel.

As it happens a good few of my acquaintainces are seriously religion. Not one of their children are. Not One.

A graph of religious decline gives it about 30 years before it is totally irrelevant.

A Google image search of the last picture took me to, "funny atheist bumper stickers" which provided some quite funny/clever entertainment.

As I understood the question, it was about God not religion. Do you believe in TRUTH, and GOOD, or do you think they are constructs defined by your betters (government and main stream media; the narrative)?

guessing there is only 1 or so religion anyone is talking about

h20hamelan wrote:guessing there is only 1 or so religion anyone is talking about

Yea, I suspect "The Flying Spaghetti Monster" doesn't really apply.....though perhaps it should.....