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How long before Hamilton / Merc gets handicapped?

PostPost by: mbell » Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:14 pm

pharriso wrote: I have heard that they were burning engine oil as fuel...


What they were doing were developing special engine oils that could be burned as extra high octane fuel. The crankcase breathing system was then used to burn the fuel at time they wanted to get some more fuel/power.

So the cars would have a few liters of oil allowance that they were burning during the race as extra fuel. Allowing bypassing of fuel flow limits, fuel specifications and fuel capacities etc.

This was banned by making the cars breath the case case to air. Hence why a lot of cars now have an additional smaller "exhaust" pipe above the main one.

The Ferrari sitaution is a little sad but it seems to be the result of them doing something of questionable legality and developing there car around it. Now they don't have the extra power from it their car is no longer competitive. In the end they made their bed and now they their stuck in it for a while until they can make some fundamental changes/improvements.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:31 pm

Sounds exactly the sort of thing Chapman would have done :lol:

cheers
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:42 pm

pharriso wrote:Anyone know what the Ferrari cheat was last year? I have heard that they were burning engine oil as fuel...


I wasn't aware of the engine oil scam!
Last year using an illegal ES bypass system that allowed them to harness more Electrical energy than the regs allowed.
The infamous latest cheat that allowed the engine to pass more fuel than allowed. Ferrari deny this and it is a complete coincidence that removing this nonexistant cheat has sent them from the front of the grid to the back.
Couple of years back traction control software was found in their cars but Ferrari got away by stating that they had never used it. Honest. Cough Cough.
ETc ETc
Who knows how many times they have cheated and got away with it.

rgh0 wrote:Sounds exactly the sort of thing Chapman would have done :lol:
cheers Rohan


Exactly what I was thinking! :)
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PostPost by: webrest7 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 10:51 pm

mark030358 wrote:Great isn't it when Ferrari aren't even close. Magnificent history, but poor losers.

I'm prepared to be flamed :roll:

cheers

Not by me.
They have been given so many favours including their heritage bonus over the years. It's time they sucked up a bit of pain.
Now they're taken care of how do we nobble Mercedes.
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PostPost by: Frogelan » Tue Sep 01, 2020 4:31 am

To reply to the original question, personally I think some rule changes are required in F1 to lower costs, make the racing more interesting and increase the technical evolutions. The budgets are still to high.

M-B have been using huge amounts of money but (other than repetively winning) the utility seems obscure. Although I can appreciate the optimising the MGU-H/K electronics (similar to Ferrari's tricks with the fuel metering...) it is tricky for us fans to follow the details as these are kept secret. It is easier to follow either concepts such as blown diffusers and Dual Axis Steering project.

In terms of interesting races (especially as spectators are now optional) there is very much to recommend the WEC and the Nurburgring Endurance Series which are both shown live on You Tube.

Here is a brief taste of the action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rW9pdFFKaM

And the longer version: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aAd7X1Rxxg

F1 is really uninteresting in comparison. Hamilton winning a few extra championships is of no value either to himself or the sport.
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PostPost by: 69S4 » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:14 am

F1 has always had to deal with the cost issue and its implications - one of which is of course that if you restrict more and more of the technology that big budget R&D can bring you encourage 'innovative' means of gaining an advantage. As it is F1 has been accused of banning so many advances that it's become no more than 1000bhp Morris Minor racing (not sure what the US equivalent of a Morris Minor is :lol: ). I know the 'F' stands for formula, which implies rules but there does seem to be so many of them that virtually nothing gets through. For example Mercedes dual axis steering will be banned rather than open for all to copy and improve on next year.

I suppose the argument is that most fans neither know nor care about the technology and a kind of football tribe mentality - pick your team and support them through good times and bad - is encouraged as a means of monetising the marketing. 'Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday' used to be how racing was used. I'd guess it's a bit more subtle and arms length these days but the prospect of getting your product in front of crowds of baying potential purchasers must still be the aim at some level, even if it's only to make them feel good about you. I note that one of the engine changes in the pipeline is to raise rpm levels 3-4k to make the flat turbo sound more appealing. That's not an engineering necessity, it's just pure marketing.
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PostPost by: el-saturn » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:36 am

arrogance and hypocrites; reminds me of the rep. party - trump=ferrari: looks real bad together, don´t it?!....... sandy
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:05 pm

Well that was a surprise! And a win for an Italian car - sort of.

Long as Ferrari loose that's fine by me.
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PostPost by: pharriso » Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:50 pm

vincereynard wrote:Long as Ferrari loose that's fine by me.


+1 :D
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PostPost by: Slowtus » Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:16 pm

vincereynard wrote:Well that was a surprise! And a win for an Italian car - sort of.

Long as Ferrari loose that's fine by me.


Poor thinking AND poor spelling :D
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:08 pm

Slowtus wrote:
vincereynard wrote:Well that was a surprise! And a win for an Italian car - sort of.

Long as Ferrari loose that's fine by me.


Poor thinking AND poor spelling :D



I du appologise!
As long as Ferarri loose that's fine by me.
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PostPost by: Slowtus » Sun Sep 06, 2020 7:17 pm

vincereynard wrote:
Slowtus wrote:
vincereynard wrote:Well that was a surprise! And a win for an Italian car - sort of.

Long as Ferrari loose that's fine by me.


Poor thinking AND poor spelling :D



I du appologise!
As long as Ferarri loose that's fine by me.


That is the loose thinking of a loser. :P
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PostPost by: sprintsoft » Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:03 pm

I'm not a big Ferrari fan but I really rate Leclerc, I think he could have won it today if he wasn't trying too hard and lost it at Parabolica, it could have been such a different result. I can only imagine the huge pressure within the team and from the Italian press to succeed, a guy of that calibre should not normally make a mistake like that.

So Vettel retires with brake issues, then, wasn't there a problem in the pits with the air guns not working at full pressure?

It stinks of bad management to me.

Mercedes don't have a quick car by accident - they just have the best management team.

Remember another top team - Todt / Brawn / Schumacher? = unbeatable!

Marks out of ten for Binotto - 3/10 and dropping.... a back room guy promoted outside of his competency into a leading role he hasn't a hope in hell of succeeding at - who's idea was that?

Gasly - well done - and didn't cave under pressure - good job!
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PostPost by: JonB » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:25 am

I'm not an expert but I do recall that Schumacher (Mr Smug German) and Ferrari were unbeatable for years. At that time the pundits were complaining that F1 was boring, there wasn't enough actual competition, few overtaking manoeuvres and they were losing audience (and hence, sponsorship).

This thing with Hamilton just feels like history repeating itself.

As said before, it does not feel like "sport".
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PostPost by: Sploder90 » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:28 pm

Think of the Mercs as a couple of cars for cleaning the track, in effect very expensive road sweepers and just enjoy the pandemonium going on behind them :D
Mind you, that stuff in Quali is heading for an accident all too reminiscent of the 1980's with qualifying tyres good for one lap.
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