feeling guilty?

[Elanconvert]

all the hoohaa about climate change has made me conscious about my emissions - and made me think twice about unnecessary car journeys....... B******T!!!
Just had a look at 'planefinder.net'....... unbelievable!
average of 12000 aircraft in the air at any one time.......no doubt many of them half empty....not just the co2 they produce, but all those contrails expanding into clouds at 30,000ft.....

sooooo....no more guilt about that 15 minute blast on a sunny afternoon! thanks - planefinder..

fred

[gherlt]

Your comment is absolutely correct, also using a classic car for ... 1000 miles a year ? 2000 miles ?
Now everytime some come up (Buckland one of them) and says they uses their classic car for 20.000 miles a year. But they are only a few. And thats why - on continental Europe at least - classic cars are mostly allowed into (enviromentally) restricted zones.
You should feel guilty for buying bread and taking a car for that on a daily basis.

And as you say, what really does matter is flying for a few days over the pond, to go "shopping", or similar "Jet-set" behaviour (which did not matter when they were a few, but now with many thousands trying to imitate them ... not good). You should feel guilty when you take a holiday on the other side of the world, when you might have georgous places nearby.

On this list I would like to add not insulating your house and keeing that old heating system, using more energy more than necessary. Guilty because it usually pays for itself.

Now, let more controversy come up.

[The Veg]

I agree with gherit.

And for some background, my degree is in environmental science, and I strive to live by values that respect the ecosystem.

That said, classic/hobby cars and motorcycles are a drop in the ocean- basically insignificant as humanity's total carbon footprint goes, or even in individual countries since vehicular hobbyists tend to be concentrated on first-world countries, which are generally fairly clean-running overall.

That said, sure, hobbyists can do a few things to prevent gratuitous pollution, but we need not feel excessive guilt.

I'm definitely NOT going to be driving the Lotus every day or even very frequently- the parking situation in my garage will prevent that. For daily use I have a small Mazda that is really quite efficient and recent-enough to be made to operate to clean standards.

I do travel for my job every week though, so I try to do so as cleanly as possible when I can. I did recently noticed that the travel-booking app that my company uses does include carbon-offsets for flights and that is a good thing. For one trip last year the rental car company gave me a hybrid car (which are still rare in rental fleets unfortunately) and it was really fun to see what driving techniques would sway the powertrain toward which source and how to get the least gas-input.

[Andy8421]

....not just the co2 they produce, but all those contrails expanding into clouds at 30,000ft.....

For what its worth, I believe the current consensus is that contrails produce an overall cooling effect on the earth's surface. Its a complex balance between the sun's radiation reflected back into space and heat trapped beneath the cloud layer, but the net is that clouds cool. I am afraid I have no idea whether this offsets the CO2 produced by burning the jet fuel in the first place, but my suspicion is probably not.

[h20hamelan]

I believe BJ (Boris Johnson ?Blow Job?) and DT (Donald Trump ?Deep Throat?) are merely puppets (or here in North America ?Muppets?) Oligarchs are the real problem, or the 1%.
It?s true here in the Wild West. Forestry is actually the highest carbon emitter, even after air travel. Neither of which are essential
Essential or Need it where its at
Humans dont Need to fill the land fills, nor do we need as much as we take
This ?Giftmas? I only filled one small bread bag with food wrap and gift packaging for 4 children
My trips are on foot or bicycle. And when I work, its in a big stinky truck or lotus (weather permitting)

The USA military emits more pollution than the next 5 countries combined. And that?s what the world strives for, to be like the states in the 1950 where the standard of living was at its height. Let?s not forget its 2020. Most important, nothing has changed. We surpassed the 365 target long ago. Sitting at 420 ppb.

If the oceans (filters 80% of the carbon) and amazon or the carbon filters are unable to work

I should not get started on minimum wage, and if it followed inflation. We would be at $30 per hr not $10. Therefore, people cant think or contribute. Merely work 3 jobs per day.

viewtopic.php?f=45&t=45802

Gorden Murray commented on the lack of battery storage at about 1hr

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=45819

People here have commented on Hydrogen too

Truth is, 97% of the carbon a vehicle uses over its lifetime is from its manufacturing. So keep the good old ones rolling.

Back to the garden and my 10 fruit and 5 nut trees and 1/2 acre of farm land

[Slowtus]

I long for the days when cows were blamed for all this global whatevering.

That said, I no longer drive, I just sit in my Elan on a weekly basis and make engine noises.

[69S4]

Saw a huge poster display in Stockholm a couple of weeks back informing readers that one flight from Stockholm to Gothenburg (about 400 miles) emitted as much CO2 as 4000 train journeys. The poster was hanging from the ceiling in Stockholm central station....

[Elanconvert]

good to get some interesting comments.....re; the contrails for instance....surely it is not just any cooling effects of clouds which are generated, but the moisture injected into the atmosphere at height? is it not true that more moisture = more extreme weather events? do clouds also trap heat in the atmosphere?
I seem to remember from schoolboy science days that aircraft were used to 'seed' clouds to stimulate rain in times/areas of drought?

more generally, it seems that we in the UK consume on average about 0.8L of gasoline per person per day - so for a family of four, average would be 5 gallons [22.4L] a week......if I keep my overall consumption below that,.....well, every little will help....
p.s. I use wood pellets for heating [no doubt someone will say this is not so eco-friendly as it sounds, but at least it is not burning fossil fuel, and in theory is sustainable] ...8 inches of roof insulation, old house so double glazing not on, but secondary glazing installed....+.draught-proofing.....not suitable for solar power because of tree cover/shade......
anything else I can do?
fred

[gherlt]

>anything else I can do?
change to an electricity tariff that is 100% green (wind/solar/water)
change all light bulbs in the house to LED
change "big" appliances to A+++ (refrigerator ! was 20% of consumption in my house !)

and I think thats it ...

[The Veg]

p.s. I use wood pellets for heating [no doubt someone will say this is not so eco-friendly as it sounds, but at least it is not burning fossil fuel, and in theory is sustainable

It's a short-term idea.

It's still combustion. And trees are not infinitely renewable; you can only grow so many crops of them on a piece of land before the soil is depleted.
And the trees probably grew in another country that has less interest in forest sustainability.

And back to the combustion issue, wood-smoke is worse for human health than oil-smoke or coal-smoke, not that any of them aren't unhealthy, but wood-smoke is high in certain particulates that are especially nasty to our lungs.

[h20hamelan]

>anything else I can do?
change to an electricity tariff that is 100% green (wind/solar/water)
change all light bulbs in the house to LED
change "big" appliances to A+++ (refrigerator ! was 20% of consumption in my house !)

and I think thats it ...

Someone may correct me, i believe in Australia their refrigerators only power on a few times per day.
I have wired timers into my hot water, fridge, freezer etc
Not only because I am Scottish/Irish/Canadian and cheap. But because everything in N America is over the top

[h20hamelan]

p.s. I use wood pellets for heating [no doubt someone will say this is not so eco-friendly as it sounds, but at least it is not burning fossil fuel, and in theory is sustainable

It's a short-term idea.

It's still combustion. And trees are not infinitely renewable; you can only grow so many crops of them on a piece of land before the soil is depleted.
And the trees probably grew in another country that has less interest in forest sustainability.

And back to the combustion issue, wood-smoke is worse for human health than oil-smoke or coal-smoke, not that any of them aren't unhealthy, but wood-smoke is high in certain particulates that are especially nasty to our lungs.

I am also not sure about the comment about wood. As we here at home and shop have 4 wood stoves, the wood stoves get a bad rap because, what if everybody did that. I live on the edge of town, upwind. There are windless days where the smoke sits in the lower part of town. Requirements are 3 feet above dwelling for chimney.
The reason wood is so bad, is sometimes when one lights a fire, and there is not enough draw. The smoke will not go up the chimney, rather into the dwelling. And, not all wood stoves in history have been air tight.

Further, from 1st year chemistry. I believe the difference between ash or smoke from wood is quite very different than anything from inside the earth. Ice ages are from ash or soot in the atmosphere.
About 20-25 years ago. I was experimenting with soy based polymers. At the time, soy was given 50 year above the ground (If you burry it it degrades very quickly) life expectancy. Ester and epoxy resins only 7 (yes, paint and gel coats do their thing for any product) year above the ground, but 10,000 years biodegradable life.

The point I am trying to make is that, products from above the earth have a very different composition.
I fer one, would prefer breathing wood smoke, than coal, oil or anything from below the earth
I fear the poor folk in Australia dont want any smoke. And summers in BC are no longer.
Russia has lost almost as much as N America has, over the last 20 years.

Not that its all dooms day, the heat bloom in the Pacific off my northern coast has tropical fish at 6 degrees warmer oceanic waters

This all combined with the earth being in the closest proximity to the sun in 60,000 years (or it was in 2005 or so + or - a few thousand days)

Long live liberal corporate capitalism...

[Elanconvert]

p.s. I use wood pellets for heating [no doubt someone will say this is not so eco-friendly as it sounds, but at least it is not burning fossil fuel, and in theory is sustainable

It's a short-term idea.

It's still combustion. And trees are not infinitely renewable; you can only grow so many crops of them on a piece of land before the soil is depleted.
And the trees probably grew in another country that has less interest in forest sustainability.

And back to the combustion issue, wood-smoke is worse for human health than oil-smoke or coal-smoke, not that any of them aren't unhealthy, but wood-smoke is high in certain particulates that are especially nasty to our lungs.

the wood pellets I use are from wood grown in the UK from 'sustainable' sources'
It could be argued that ultimate depletion is also the fate of all soils, including those on which we grow much of our food. the main nutrients of which are provided by artificial fertilisers produced from oil.
trees at least draw nutrients from deeper, and deposit them on the surface as leaf litter/compost for other plants.


it seems that for heating homes in a temperate climate we have a choice of
a] building homes with such high insulation, they can be heated by our own bodies.
b] using fossil fuels like oil, gas or solid fuel
c] using electricity , at present produced largely by fossil fuels or nuclear fission, maybe in conjunction with heat pumps
d] using sustainable fuels such as wood and other biomass

all have their problems/drawbacks.....

here's my solution.....generate solar energy in sunny climates - use the power to produce hydrogen by electrolysis, which can then be exported [in highly dangerous liquid form?] to the temperate climates to power hydrogen cells

fred

[h20hamelan]

Just because, I predict your stove. Like mine, have catalytic converters?
My kids are not all that inspired by baby boomers lack of change. Bty. Greta?s story is fairly close to home.
And probably, I am a bit hostile toward liberal corporate capitalism. I am much more concerned with the lack of a political roadmap to control the superheating (never seen even in an ice age at this rate) of the earth. Again, I fear corporations like BJ and DT control the people in our democracies. And people are too scared and cant afford to do anything.

Many have said, 1lb of carbon today will be worth 100lb in 10 years...

[Craven]

In a previous thread I wrote:-
Hydrogen powered cars; there is currently research that shows the production of Hydrogen from solar power. A scheme that would use vast arrays of solar panels in say Australia would be used for this, to overcome the difficult Hydrogen transportation storage problem is to combine the hydrogen with nitrogen to make ammonia. It?s a technique that is well-established, and has been done on an industrial scale for nearly a century, Ammonia can be compressed into a liquid at much more moderate temperatures, and is relatively easy to transport.
What was missing ? until recently ? was the technology to extract the hydrogen back out of the ammonia at the other end of the export equation. However the establishment of a pilot plant to test technology that can refine a 100% pure stream of hydrogen from gasified ammonia using a metal membrane is under way.