Lotus Elan

Duckhams oil is back

PostPost by: martinbrowning » Mon Apr 09, 2018 4:20 pm

Hi,
I see that Duckhams have reintroduced their classic 20/50 oil - the green oil in the yellow and blue can. I seem to recall that, back in the day, it was THE oil to put in your engine. I currently use Millers Classic mineral oils but price is comparable with Duckhams so might well change. Any thoughts?

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PostPost by: MarkDa » Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:01 pm

When they relaunched in the autumn, worried about cam lobe/follower wear, I wrote to them to check on ZDDP levels and was reassured that 20/50 has between 1200 & 1400 ppm.
This is much higher than modern oils but not so high as to cause excessive build up and stiction.

I still have a few tins from before they ceased production in the first place!
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PostPost by: RichC » Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:55 am

yeah ordered 2 cans already . all used up so i'll need to reorder
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PostPost by: billwill » Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:38 am

Who is stocking it?
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:42 am

Nobody!?
Looks like online only

https://www.duckhams.com/range/

So traditional that it only comes in gallon tins @?30 plus ?6 delivery.

Mind you this is the collectors edition so you mustn't use it!!
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PostPost by: jono » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:21 pm

..what are the 'off the shelf' options for a 20/50 classic oil with high ZDDP?

I've been using Halfords Classic (looks like Duckhams, made by Comma) and have just discovered it has a ZDDP content of below 700 ppm.

I recently posted regarding pitting on some of my camshaft lobes and am now wondering if this is a result of using the Halfords oil?
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PostPost by: pauljones » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:15 pm

I too use the halfords classic oil.
Does that mean that i should look at either a high zddp addidive, or change the oil i use?
Either way im not a high millage user so a yearly oil/filter change (or 2 yearly) wouldnt break the pension.
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PostPost by: Foxie » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:31 pm

I started on Duckhams 20/50 in Andretti and Peterson's time, but lately I'm using Valvoline VR1 zddp 1300/1400 ppm

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PostPost by: david.g.chapman » Thu Apr 12, 2018 6:02 pm

I have used Halford's Classic 20/50 oil in my +2 for 50000 miles plus without any noticable effects on the cam finish.

Looking around at other classic forums supports the fact that Halford's oil has a lower ZDDP level than some other oils, but that there is enough to protect the cams unless you go near the red line a lot.

I have just changed the oil on my car for more Halford's oil, but I won't be doing anything until next year when I might look at alternatives.

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PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:01 pm

jono wrote:..what are the 'off the shelf' options for a 20/50 classic oil with high ZDDP?

I've been using Halfords Classic (looks like Duckhams, made by Comma) and have just discovered it has a ZDDP content of below 700 ppm.

I recently posted regarding pitting on some of my camshaft lobes and am now wondering if this is a result of using the Halfords oil?


Probably not due to its ZDDP content but maybe due to its cheap oil base stock and additive package overall.

cheers
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PostPost by: JonB » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:08 am

There's a good writeup about ZDDP on their site: https://www.duckhams.com/zddp-what-does-it-all-mean/

Question is, who are they really? A new (unknown) company that bought the Duckhams brand, or the same company?
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:37 am

It's a new company who's main man Martin Gough is ex Millers and Penrite oils.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:01 pm

JonB wrote:There's a good writeup about ZDDP on their site: https://www.duckhams.com/zddp-what-does-it-all-mean/

Question is, who are they really? A new (unknown) company that bought the Duckhams brand, or the same company?


The write up on ZDDP is pure marketing hype. it applicability to generic "classic" engines is questionable, its applicability to Lotus twincams even less. ZDDP has no relevance except high pressure boundary layer lubrication so it is meaningless in crank and big end or cam bearing lubrication. it is relevant in cam to follower lubrication. its relevance is mainly during running in.

Buy the best modern synthetic oil of the right viscosity that you can afford after you have run in your engine and forget the "classic" marketing hype.

cheers
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PS so ends my ZDDP rant for another few months
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Fri Apr 13, 2018 2:28 pm

Which is just what my engine builder said and he does nothing but twinks mostly for racers.
He ran mine in on a dyno then he advised a traditional oil for 1000 miles - presumably to complete the running in, before changing to synthetic if i wanted.
I used some Q 20/50 and had noticeable consumption for 500 miles but since then its barely used anything.
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PostPost by: Chancer » Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:05 pm

Having read the article I found myself thinking that if the ZDDP is needed to protect the crankshaft bearings in older vehicles (bull***t in my view) then what is so different about modern engines that they dont need it?

The longevity of older design engines when run on modern oils speaks for itself.
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