Lotus Elan

HAH! no paper tax disk, no go getum.

PostPost by: billwill » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:14 am

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PostPost by: elanfan1 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 9:46 am

Should really have been foreseeable. What a lot of muppets.

If they just added a charge on fuel it would be difficult for anyone to avoid paying it, much easier to collect, less Dmin cost.
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:35 pm

..and those who pollute the environment and do most miles in gas guzzlers will pay the price....

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PostPost by: billwill » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:26 am

But it would put 'road tax' back on our Historic Vehicles !
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PostPost by: Orsom Weels » Sat Nov 18, 2017 10:35 am

True, & in my case I would almost certainly be much worse off, as even the 'modern' vehicles I have that I have to pay for are at the cheaper end of the scale, but it would be the simplest & fairest way.
It'll probably never happen though, it would be too much like common sense for a government agency :lol:
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Sat Nov 18, 2017 12:53 pm

Orsom Weels wrote:True, & in my case I would almost certainly be much worse off, as even the 'modern' vehicles I have that I have to pay for are at the cheaper end of the scale, but it would be the simplest & fairest way.
It'll probably never happen though, it would be too much like common sense for a government agency :lol:

Or they have taxed fuel so much already they think there would be riots in the streets if they added some more road tax too it.

Not sure i agree with the ' visual reminder' comment, do you need a Visual reminder to mot or insure your car?? plus with anpr they can tell if your legit before they even pull you over so maybe the police just got more efficient??

I bet by the time you add the extra fines imposed etc they won't be crying too much.
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PostPost by: Orsom Weels » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:44 pm

Grizzly wrote:Or they have taxed fuel so much already they think there would be riots in the streets if they added some more road tax too it.

That & the fact those in the position to make such a decision all drive big cars & do lots of miles so they know they'd be much worse off :lol:
Grizzly wrote:Not sure i agree with the ' visual reminder' comment, do you need a Visual reminder to mot or insure your car??

Very valid comment, but don't we get a visual reminder ? I certainly do, comes in a brown envelope with Driver & Vehicle Licensing Agency on the front, about a month before the due date :? That's more than you get for your MOT :)

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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:48 am

If you haven't taxed your car or SORN'd it 7 or so days into the expired month you get a 2nd reminder as well.

A ?1000 fine for driving a car untaxed would sort it out!!
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PostPost by: Grizzly » Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:59 am

Orsom Weels wrote:
Grizzly wrote:Or they have taxed fuel so much already they think there would be riots in the streets if they added some more road tax too it.

That & the fact those in the position to make such a decision all drive big cars & do lots of miles so they know they'd be much worse off :lol:

I know it's all relative to the car you drive but take a Range Rover for example, you have to pay ?1200 first tax followed by ?450 a year after that (not to mention CCZ charges in London) so i suspect if it was true the guys at the top making decisions would have kept the Tax more balanced across the board to save then self money..... But then this is the British Government so they probably haven't thought that far ahead or have done it to take your eye of some thing a little more dodgy some where else.
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PostPost by: M.J.S » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:41 am

The whole system needs a major revamp, old and classic cars included. Considering the obsessions with emissions, the currently system can be nonsensical.

I'm not complaining about our +2 as that is free, but our 1990 Eunos Roadster V-Spec, with 1597cc, and a relatively small carbon footprint, costs ?240. Quite recently I was chatting to a guy with a 1991 Rolls Royce Silver Spirit, 6700cc V8, Lord knows what emissions, tax cost ?240 per year. :roll:

The emissions brackets come into play after 2001 if memory serves? Those caught in a no man's land between tax exempt and emissions based tax are getting a bit of a bum deal methinks. In Lotus terms, should an Excel owner be paying the same tax as a 6.0 V12 XJS?

If a fair and accurate system cannot be put in place, just scrap road tax on all pre-emission cars.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:41 pm

I believe that's exactly what they are moving towards, with the categories being 'historic', (rolling forward to an unknown point then it will stop!), 'substantially modified' and for the moderns, 'petrol car' or 'diesel car'.

It seems unlikely that they will extend 'Historics' much beyond the current year of exemption as they will soon be running into cars which can genuinely be used everyday, although there is the opportunity to restrict the historics usage.

The big overhaul is when more and more folks use electric or hybrid cars, and tax revenue decreases considerably. There are now talks of resurrecting the road usage payments system that was being considered 10 years back, That way you pay by miles covered / type of vehicle / occupancy all adjusted by road section (eg. M25 vs country lane) and time of day (eg rush hour vs Sunday morning). That's going to be fun!
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PostPost by: billwill » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:34 pm

In this day & Age they could probably use a sealed GPS mileage recorder which is interrogated by SMS (mobile phone TXT) messages by the tax authorities to determine your road usage tax.
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PostPost by: Craven » Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:19 pm

I seem to recall something about the European GPS system when complete, which UK contributes, being use for such a purpose rather than using the US GPS.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:17 pm

You?re absolutely right, and part of the reason for it being shelved was the availability of the Galileo array, not due to be fully operational until the 2020s. Road usage is essentially a tax, and the calculation of taxes cannot depend on the availability of an American satellite navigation system, or even just a satellite system on its own, as it could go down for a period.

The only way it would be acceptable is to have two sets of information?one being the Galileo positioning, and the other being the recording of road sections. I.e, a piece of road in between two junctions. Each section has been identified, and you can imagine that with 380,000 kms of road in the UK, there are quite a lot! Each (major) section has to have a transponder on it to identify which one it is, and accurate mileage is also recorded.

There were lots of belts and braces built in, including having to be able to store all the car?s movements for up to 6 weeks in the car?s on-board unit. Then there were the issues of foreign cars using the roads (temporary on-board unit), cars being towed, and the biggest issue, the Northern Ireland border.

But most of the things were designed out, and it was a huge data collection, billing, contact centre (21 languages) and enforcement business. All costs passed on to the car user of course!

It may just be implemented as an annual car tax plus additional charging for major roads and inner city areas, which would be a lot less cost.
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PostPost by: AHM » Tue Nov 21, 2017 6:23 pm

More Government that's what we need!

Electric vehicles are not great on the environmental front - the pollution just moves out of the Cities.

We don't have the infrastructure to meet the electricity demand for electric vehicles, actually we don't have the infrastructure to keep the lights on - where will we put all the new Nuclear power stations when we finally have to build them.

There is plenty of oil it's just in the hands of people we don't trust.... But then the resources to make batteries aren't much better placed.

The kind of people that don't pay road tax don't buy insurance ether - it follows that they aren't going to give a toss about a ?1000 fine. They don't have to pay for their TV licence any more and you are already paying their housing and benefits.

Tax is a blunt instrument, the solution to reducing revenue will be simple and unpopular, rather than complicated and very unpopular.

Ultimately there is little need to tax cars we just need to stop running a deficit and stop spending more than is sustainable on things like the NHS....

As for road tax on classic cars I won't lose any sleep it is a lot of effort for little return. But an increase in insurance premium tax would be easy and a tax on tyres would charge per mile....

Discuss!
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