Linux - free yourself from Microsoft tyranny

PostPost by: vincereynard » Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:49 pm

I'm creeping towards giving this a try - https://www.linuxmint.com/ Initially dual bootable until I can chop Windows.

I have the ISO download and have validated it and burned it to a DVD.

I'm now, with trepidation, looking through the BIOS, (Windows 10), to get it to boot from the DVD.

It seems much more complicated these days than when you could simply tell it the boot order and off you went.

BIOS - UEFI or Legacy boot. What? Disable secure boot??

Anyone been here before?
At the moment the PC ignores the DVD because it is set for "quick boot"? Seems strange to ignores the DVD but mention using USB.

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PostPost by: mbell » Mon Feb 13, 2017 7:41 pm

I generally free'd myself from MS by buying a Chromebook for home stuff. Cheap and low hassle for browsing etc.

For the background have a read of:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2901262/ ... linux.html

I'd guess you need to select Legacy boot and Disable the secure boot stuff. Then probably disable "quick boot", as I guess that just skips looking at USB/DVD etc and boots straight from the Hard drive.
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PostPost by: The Veg » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:16 pm

4 Or 5 years ago my laptop crashed and a really geeky friend of mine revived it with Mint. I don't claim to be the sharpest user around, maybe very slightly above 'average consumer level,' but I had no trouble using Mint for a couple of years before replacing the laptop due to increasing hardware obsolescence. That said, I found a few small things about Mint sort of annoying, but I don't even remember what most of them were. One I do recall was that after cutting or copying something, 'paste' always appeared at the very bottom of the menu, requiring more mouse-moving than if it had appeared at top, above all the other less-likely-to-be-used options.
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PostPost by: bulfin » Mon Feb 13, 2017 9:44 pm

Hi Vince,

I am not a LINUX guru, but have used Ubuntu (2010-2015) and MINT (2015-present). My initial reason was old hardware that had trouble with Windows XP. I now have a new machine, but love LINUX and will not go back to Windows. When I installed MINT (v17, I think) it would not fit on a disc, i had to use a thumb drive. My new machine already had Windows 10 on it - I installed MINT to dual boot without having to worry about BIOS. I did partition the hard drive into LINUX, Windows and Joint use. With a version of Ubuntu I did have to mess with a file to tell it to dual boot, but it was a Linux file and not the BIOS. IIRC, the BIOS just tells what order to check - usually disk, memory and then USB port, but I would not swear to it. Persist and I think you will be very happy with MINT. I have had no problems with the free office suite and compatability with word/excel etc.

Bob

BTW, it has probably been 2 years since I booted in Windows!
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PostPost by: Fred Talmadge » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:26 pm

I've been using Linux for 7 years. I play games on a older Playstation, have an accountant do my taxes and update my Garmin at work. Other than I have no problems. Currently using Chakra for the last couple of years.

You should be able to install Linux side by side with Windows and then choose the one you want to run at boot. Yea Secure boot and UEFI make Linux a bit difficult to install, but you can turn them off if you want to run Linux 100% Don't forget to back up your data! Good luck.
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PostPost by: billwill » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:16 am

Be sure to backup all your unique file before starting to Install Linux.


However initially you don't even need to do an install, because most distributions of Linux come as "LIVE CDS" (DVDS usually nowadays) . This means that you can boot them and run then using only the DVD drive and the RAM of your computer, not touching the hard disk at all. So you can play and get familiar with Mint without doing anything permanent to your computer at all.

When you are finally happy, the install program for Mint runs within the "Live" session.

Part of the procedures of installing Mint will give you an option to install Mint ALONGSIDE windows it will reduce the sizes of your Windows partitions on the hard disk and create Linux partitions in the space created and it will create a boot-time menu for you (using Grub) to choose which system you want to boot
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PostPost by: UAB807F » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:19 am

Ok, I suppose I ought to don the Nomex suit before posting this, but here's an opposing viewpoint....

By coincidence I did exactly what you're thinking about two weeks ago. I run W10 Pro with deferred updates on a desktop which has been very good, but one laptop runs W10 Home and that decided to wreck itself during a recent update. As a founder member of the tinfoil hat brigade I've never liked the MS assumptions that they know best what to do with my computer, I was in rant mode so I downloaded Linux Mint (which I've used previously).

As Bill says, the ISO I used will run from DVD (albeit slowly) so if you are new to Linux you can spend an hour or so finding your way around, but I just cleared the HD & made a clean install.

And there's no denying, it works. Good looking graphics, check. Internet surfing, check. Libreoffice, check. Audacity, check.

But... it's slow. On exactly the same hardware it was slower to boot up, not so slick in operation and despite me using exactly the same programs on Mint that I used on W10 (Chrome, Thunderbird, Libreoffice) it just didn't feel as polished. I have no idea why that is, but after a couple of sessions I was ready for humble pie.

I'm honestly disappointed, but after a week I flattened the Mint installation, went back to W10 and spent some time changing the options that MS had kindly made for me, plus removing whatever bloatware I could. The laptop is now running smoothly again (for now...)

I'll admit I'm not the typical Linux user because I regularly use Windows software on my main PC, so in my mind I'm always making direct comparisons. If I was "only Linux" or I was just using it for internet & email then maybe I'd have been happier with it.

I'd definitely suggest running a DVD version first, make a list of the software you regularly use and check out the Linux alternatives. If you use things like MS Visual Studio or Adobe Premiere then it might make your mind up for you.

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PostPost by: vincereynard » Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:52 am

Thanks for the replies chaps.
Interesting points of view.
Microsoft's patronising attitude is mainly why I want to give them a digital couple of fingers.
From the pcworld site mentioned by mbell -
" Manufacturers will be able enable UEFI Secure Boot without giving you a manual kill switch, as they have to do with Windows 8 systems. If that happens, you?ll only be able to boot Microsoft-approved operating systems on these locked-down PCs. Microsoft is turning the Secure Boot screws tighter"

Hardly competitive free enterprise. Big Brother is here. Obviously it will be necessary to check on that before buying any new machine.
Buy one from these chaps without an OS perhaps - https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/

Mine is only 6 months old and it WAS quite quick - before the latest, mandatory, update. I'm tired of their arrogance.

Although I am concerned about UAB807F mention of Linux being slow. I was hoping for the opposite!

My problem at the moment is carefully scanning the BIOS screen gives no mention of booting from the DVD being an option.

How can I create an ISO image on a USB stick. I'm not sure of the difference but I know it is not the same as a straight copy. Or could I simply copy the DVD I've created to a USB?

Vince

P.S. I have not seen any mention of Firewalls or AntiVirus with Linux. I assume these are still necessary?
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PostPost by: Craven » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:40 pm

Hi,
Went through all the mentioned points BUT found when needing add on?s to run say MP4 player or MS office ran into so much hassle gave up!!! Endless hours of FUN.
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PostPost by: billwill » Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:57 pm

I do not understand why Brian's version of Linux ran very slow. It is possible that he was not running graphics acceleration on Linux but was on Windows.

In most cases Linux is quicker.

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For most domestic uses the Firewall is in the Router not the computers. They are set by default to allow all out-going traffic and to reject any unsolicited incoming traffic. This does mean that you should be careful about allowing anyone else to know your Wi-Fi passkey because computers connected by such Wi-Fi are inside your Firewall.

Almost all firewalls use the packet routing system and rules which are in the heart of Unix and is implemented in a very similar method in Linux. So most Firewalls are merely user interfaces to this internal packet system.

The status of Malware on Linux systems is adequately described on Wikimedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_malware

Most Windows malware doesn't do anything on Linux because the malicious action usually replaces some windows coding, which simply isn't at that place in Linux.
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PostPost by: billwill » Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:00 pm

How can I create an ISO image on a USB stick. I'm not sure of the difference but I know it is not the same as a straight copy. Or could I simply copy the DVD I've created to a USB?


This is a common procedure, try one of these:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=windo ... gAajp5LYAg
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PostPost by: UAB807F » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:36 pm

billwill wrote:I do not understand why Brian's version of Linux ran very slow. It is possible that he was not running graphics acceleration on Linux but was on Windows.

In most cases Linux is quicker.


I don't know Bill, just that it was coming from exactly the same hardware - laptop with SSD - and a standard install.

I didn't expect Mint to operate quicker than W10 but I did expect parity. I didn't alter any of the installation settings such as graphics acceleration, my attention was caught by what I perceived to be a slower boot up and the way such things the internet browsers didn't seem to "snap" the way they had previously. It reminded me very much how the laptop had operated on W7. (and I didn't like that either :) )

I don't want to give the impression that I'm anti-Linux. I've occasionally put a distro on a "spare" laptop just to see how it's getting on and the latest Mint distro was a very user-friendly installation, as easy as installing W10 from an MS ISO.

The fact you can get a complete software library for free means there's a lot going for it and if it does what you want the computer to do, then great.

Brian

Edit to add; Vince, what model have you got ? Perhaps the boot options are hidden under "advanced" or on a second screen to discourage changing, but it would be strange not to have the option to boot from a DVD if such a drive is present.

IIRC on mine it is under something like "boot order". If you have a "fast boot" option then selecting that might automatically send the boot process direct to the first drive and ignore the DVD or USB ports. My first thought would be to see if disabling that either gave you more options or made the BIOS check the drive for a bootable disc.
Last edited by UAB807F on Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: vincereynard » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:44 pm

billwill wrote:
How can I create an ISO image on a USB stick. I'm not sure of the difference but I know it is not the same as a straight copy. Or could I simply copy the DVD I've created to a USB?


This is a common procedure, try one of these:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=windo ... gAajp5LYAg


Far too obvious for me apparently! :oops:

I've download this and I'll give it a go later - https://www.ubuntu.com/download/desktop ... on-windows

I certainly hope it's not slower than the current W10 - that seems precious little quicker than the old XP clunker after the latest massive update.

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PostPost by: vincereynard » Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:51 pm

UAB807F wrote:

Vince, what model have you got ? Perhaps the boot options are hidden under "advanced" or on a second screen to discourage changing, but it would be strange not to have the option to boot from a DVD if such a drive is present.

IIRC on mine it is under something like "boot order". If you have a "fast boot" option then selecting that might automatically send the boot process direct to the first drive and ignore the DVD or USB ports. My first thought would be to see if disabling that either gave you more options or made the BIOS check the drive for a bootable disc.


Lenove Ideapad. The boot is accessed through a tiny button activated by a paper clip.
I actually deactivated Fast Boot (and secure boot) in case it gave me more options but no luck. It is very strange, the option must be here somewhere. It "seems" to offer only HDD or USB.

It used to boot in about 43 secs before it was knobbled!
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PostPost by: UAB807F » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:36 pm

Hi Vince,

I don't know if it will work on that model, but by any chance does it have a setting called "boot mode" & set to UEFI ? I've seen that come up on forums before and the answer was to select it and change back to "Legacy support".

It seems this is a modern development for Windows based PC in an attempt to prevent malware taking over your PC, but the by-product is that it's harder to install a different OS. I don't think it was MS created though.

I read an article about it but fortunately (?) all my PCs are too old for this development.... I did a quick google to brush up on it just in case it applies here, these links may help...

http://www.howtogeek.com/175649/what-you-need-to-know-about-using-uefi-instead-of-the-bios/

and

http://www.howtogeek.com/175641/how-to-boot-and-install-linux-on-a-uefi-pc-with-secure-boot/

The latter I found by chance but it does go through a process where you select the boot option from removable media and I wonder if that might throw up the option for DVD drive ?

If not, then I'd attempt to make a bootable USB drive. I used Cinnamon for my last go with it and here are some specific instructions for getting it onto a USB drive.

https://www.lifewire.com/create-uefi-bootable-linux-mint-usb-2202084

43 seconds sounds a long time, but I changed our laptop drives for SSDs, so boot times aren't really comparable. (other than saying Mint was slower than W10)
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