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The EU Referundum for the UK.

PostPost by: billwill » Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:38 pm

AHM wrote:
billwill wrote:Not really, they are on any issue that the government thinks is important enough.


Bill we have a parliamentary democracy - We elect parliament to make decisions. We have only held referenda on constitutional matters.


Quite so, but the petition is merely a request that Pariament discuss the issue of whether or not a referendum is needed on the terms of trade. If those terms include uncontrolled immigration, then that seems to me to be a sovereignty matter.

It would be Parliament that would decide to hold a referendum and on what conditions; perhaps if it were to be they would this time insist on a clear majority; say the 60% of 75% turnout that has been mooched about.
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PostPost by: terryp » Sat Jul 02, 2016 2:47 pm

AHM wrote:oh I read your post Terry
"without another referendum of some description." but then that is the EU version of democracy, and not yours isn't it.

terryp wrote:
Going back to my earlier post yet again

Good Luck, see you in 9 years!


Yes I agree the EU is exceptionally slow at agreeing trade terms 9 years is optimistic for the EU. that is why it has so few trade agreements!

Terry I'm sure you know how these things work - At the moment that the separation is agreed the announcement will be made for the "memorandum of understanding on trade tariffs". It would be madness on the part of the EU not to offer one. Not to do so would make German cars 10% and French wine 32.00 EUR / hl more expensive.

Of course the UK will do the same with the rest of the world, so we will have interim agreements with the rest of the world whereupon Australian wine for example will become 32.00 EUR / hl cheaper.

So if the EU offers no deal French wine will comparatively become 64 EUR per hL more expensive. Please do tell me how that would negatively affect the UK,


So you think the French are going to agree that the Germans can export cars to the UK without duty. I think you really are in cloud cuckoo land.
But for the UK I really hope you are right :shock:
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PostPost by: UAB807F » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:26 pm

terryp wrote:So you think the French are going to agree that the Germans can export cars to the UK without duty. I think you really are in cloud cuckoo land.
But for the UK I really hope you are right :shock:


:) well, if that is all we have to worry about, I think we'll be ok.

If the French don't let the Germans keep their sales market (Audi, VW, BMW, Porsche, etc) to say nothing about the number of Citroens and Renaults I see around then the fuss won't be about the UK deal, it'll be about whether the EU keeps going or not..... it's in all our interests to work together.
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PostPost by: terryp » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:42 pm

If you do want to know about trade deals as some of the people here are behaving like Boris!

These have been produced by Liverpool University

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/16 ... um-debate/

&

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/07/01 ... -leave-eu/

Too be fair my 9 years from now is a bit optimistic, he reckons 10 to get one with the EU after the 2 for the divorce and then any other countries commence after this.
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PostPost by: AHM » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:14 pm

terryp wrote:So you think the French are going to agree that the Germans can export cars to the UK without duty.

No I think that the French quite enjoy exporting 1.3 bn euro of wine to the UK so wouldn't impose a tariff that would put them at a significant disadvantage.

France enjoys free trade with the UK to ?24 bn (UK to France is ?22bn) do the French really want us to buy things elsewhere? We will be able to really quite easily....at a discount!

On the other hand the EU can't agree trade deals with the rest of the world so the UK economy is being held back.

terryp wrote:But for the UK I really hope you are right

It is the other way round Terry - I hope I am right for the sake of our European neighbours.

Just compare the sentiment before the vote and after. it doesn't appear that we will be "at the back of the queue" there don't appear to be too many "Consequences" after all.

French euroscepticism = 62%
French support for further integration = 22%
It isn't Brexit you want to worry about!
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PostPost by: AHM » Sat Jul 02, 2016 4:56 pm

terryp wrote:Too be fair my 9 years from now is a bit optimistic, he reckons 10 to get one with the EU after the 2 for the divorce and then any other countries commence after this.
Optimistic as I said! - the EU is hopeless at trade agreements, it doesn't like competition

Interesting academic appraisal from your man at liverpool. Yes, I did listen to all of it:

If he is right then then why did the government not scrap the tampon tax... Answer - Because it couldn't without agreement from our EU masters.

As an academic he gets to talk about being a manufacturer. He wants to try actually doing it, then he would know that his analysis is wrong. At 17.56 he said "If I'm a Manufacturer, I have to set up different production lines....." manufacturing got over that issue about 20 years ago - any combination, just in sequence, just in time! has he not noticed that we have different plugs, drive on different sides of the road, speak different languages, choose different colours, and already export outside the EU.

He starts by saying that no one knows what will happen and then makes the assertion that "we will have to adopt the Norwegian model" other than precluding his assertion he ignores the fact that. The UK carries rather more clout than Norway.
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PostPost by: terryp » Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:03 pm

I think we'd better agree to disagree, you think all will be OK , I think if article 50 is pressed the UK is Fu*ked in a major way
Only time will tell.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:16 pm

This topic is more lively than a tin box of frogs that's been left on the hob!

I could have saved 90p on a newspaper if I had realised I could read all about it here.

Some of the articles here are well thought out and well written, others are like a train wreck, it's very similar to reading the Daily Express :lol:
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PostPost by: AHM » Sat Jul 02, 2016 5:40 pm

Well Alan if you only spend 90p on your newspaper you can't expect much. :D

Here is something for the Express reader in you!

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672673 ... ect-theirs
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Jul 02, 2016 6:11 pm

I buy 1 paper a week, it costs 90p and it's The Mail on Saturday. I only buy it for its TV guide supplement.

The content of this topic as stated is at least as good as what's in the Daily Express which is an inferior tabloid to the slightly superior Daily Mail.

I'm not influenced by what I read in the one paper I buy every week. The Daily mail was for Brexit, I voted remain as stated earlier in this curates egg.

But thanks for the link, I will try and disable my anti gullible mode before reading it.
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PostPost by: UAB807F » Sun Jul 03, 2016 5:21 am

terryp wrote:(part quote)
These have been produced by Liverpool University

https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/06/16 ... um-debate/
&
https://news.liverpool.ac.uk/2016/07/01 ... -leave-eu/


Terry, you do realise that Liverpool University (my old university actually, I'm on the alumni mailing list) is a recipient of EU grants, as is the city of Liverpool itself ? So they are a touch prejudiced on the UK/EU position.

And as AHM posted, the guy is a little off the ball on manufacturing. A few weeks ago Dyson joined the exit movement and explained his reasoning, which wasn't sovereignty, immigration or any of the popular ones, it was all about manufacturing for the EU.

One comment stuck in my mind; "people think it's a single market, but it isn't". He listed the changes he has to make to sell across Europe and finished with something like "it makes no difference if we're in or out, manufacturers will still have this problem and they (the EU) are hopeless at trying to solve it"

I understand your viewpoint, everyone's entitled to their opinion and I've no intention of trying to change yours. I would like to think that after a 40 year membership, once the initial shock has died down we can all work together for our mutual benefit.
Last edited by UAB807F on Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: richardcox_lotus » Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:13 am

As I hate paying money for newspapers I get my news from both the Telegraph online....and the Guardian online. Both usually invite comments on their articles from readers, and the vitriol that sometimes appears, jeez.

So it's great we can have grownup discussions on here!

I still think there should be no undue panic; What this referendum has done has re-invigorated politic debate and for the first time in years has got people thinking about what they want from their country, what kind of future is possible, both in and out, what is "Sovereignty", etc

Whatever the future holds its a joy to feel that you're part of it.
Richard
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PostPost by: terryp » Sat Sep 17, 2016 7:24 am

Have you lot taken your country back yet? :D

If it wasn't so sad it would be hilarious.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:30 am

Terry,
The latest news is that article 50 will be triggered early in 2017 so therefore in theory we will have left the EU by early 2019. Until then, there's no chance of "getting our country back" whatever that means.

The UK is feeling a little smug at the moment, none of the horror scenarios have come to pass regarding the economy, house prices haven't collapsed, retail spending has increased, manufacturing output is up and exports are up thanks to a temporarily weakened pound.

Hinckley point is going ahead, EDF gives a sigh of relief and so does France. The Chinese are our best mates again, all sorts of back door deals have been done. The outlook is very good for post Brexit.

Later this year the USA will have a new president. I don't want to predict the outcome but " it'll be great!" The world will stop looking at the UK and Europe and shares in brick and cement producing companies will rise.
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PostPost by: terryp » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:43 am

Spyder fan wrote:Terry,
The latest news is that article 50 will be triggered early in 2017 so therefore in theory we will have left the EU by early 2019. Until then, there's no chance of "getting our country back" whatever that means.

The UK is feeling a little smug at the moment, none of the horror scenarios have come to pass regarding the economy, house prices haven't collapsed, retail spending has increased, manufacturing output is up and exports are up thanks to a temporarily weakened pound.

Hinckley point is going ahead, EDF gives a sigh of relief and so does France. The Chinese are our best mates again, all sorts of back door deals have been done. The outlook is very good for post Brexit.

Later this year the USA will have a new president. I don't want to predict the outcome but " it'll be great!" The world will stop looking at the UK and Europe and shares in brick and cement producing companies will rise.


Alan
Nothing's happened because nothing has happened!
If and I say if article 50 is pressed early next year, it will increase the chance of an ultimate brexit ........ Then watch what happens!
U.K. Is only feeling smug if you read the Express!
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