Lotus Elan and Lotus Elan Plus 2 Forums

billwill wrote:That doesn't take 2 years to talk about.

You forget that it will be government bureaucrats doing the talking.

cheers
Rohan

Yes that's exactly it, taking into account the framework.
In simple terms it's like a job. The employee has to give the employer notice. Once the notice is given he works for a period tidying up loose ends. Once left talks on whether he wants to return are commenced.
It's not me who makes the rules , it's the EU and they didn't want anyone leaving!
You will find out soon enough anyway , unless someone sees sence and we have a general election.
It's weird here as the English are becoming the butt of the stupid jokes I don't think anyone believes at the moment that the UK will be so very stupid again as to press article 50 without another referendum of some description.

Spyder fan wrote:(part quote)
I admire the sentiment, and I must point out I voted remain, but I'm unable to support you on this non democratic action.
The majority voted leave and that's what we have to work with, no ifs, no but's, just plain old "the people have spoken " or voted or whatever.

Great Britain is a powerhouse of innovation and technical excellence, there's no way that "Brussels" can ignore or punish us to the extent that it destabilises the EU.

The current negative comments from Europe are led by unelected bureaucrats, the people in power who really matter are facing elections within the next 18 months, do you really think they are going to tell their voters that jobs are going to be lost because they the leaders of the EU need to punish Great Britain for leaving?

I'm backing Britain!

That's a great attitude, you have my respect sir ! I sincerely hope there are more like you around.

Likewise it really bugs me how the media are talking the country down. We're no superpower but equally we're a decent country and can pull our weight.

I think sanity (or money) will prevail and we'll sort out some deal. Sadly, if the EU hadn't been so inflexible and rigidly sticking to 1950's rules I think we could have had a deal that kept us inside. Rules that worked in 1960 with 7 countries aren't so clever in 2016 with 28 countries of widely differing economies and in some cases, cultures, and they'll need to realise that.

Brian

billwill wrote:Clarification:
Mine is saying do we accept the LEAVING terms that they will have spent two years negotiating or do we just reject the terms and leave using the default situation (which is trading on World TRade Organization rules). The actual leaving is inevitable once Article 50 is invoked.

After two years there is only Exit! No terms, no continuation , nothing.
As a 3rd Country the UK would be back to WTO rules with the EU . Fact!
Then the negotiations start if the UK wishes and the 27 countries agree!!!!

I don't think you and the 17 million have quite got it yet!

Having said that, the U.K. could adopt a Hong Kong style of free trade at this period. I would estimate at this time the pound will be 25% down and coupled with import duty on all EU imports , imported food (approx 40%) would have gone up by over 40% in real terms.

Terry what you miss is EU food on the world market is about much cheaper than EU food on the EU market.

The EU food market is grossly overpriced due to the protection given to farmers ( mainly French ). Where the EU exports food the price has to cut compared to what it is in the EU to match the world market prices. This incidentally generates lots of WTO dumping claims around the world

The people who will find it hard will be the EU tax payers who will have to subsidise farmers even more having lost the high EU priced UK market and having to export that surplus food at substantially lower prices in competition to the rest of the worlds much more efficient farmers. Australian farmers are already calculating the gains

cheers
Rohan

Rohan
I realise there will be quite a few winners in all this as well, the French are getting ready to offer incentives for the financial markets as are Dublin and Franfurt.
The only loser however to me seems the UK!
All the best

Terry

Whatever happens the wine and cheese in France will still always be excellent and better than what you can get in the UK

cheers
Rohan

French cheese is one of my b?tes noir, an expression soon to be outlawed in the UK. If you ask for a cheese board in a restaurant, or someone serves cheese at a dinner party, invariably there`s an assortment that would suit Rohan. It`s that sliver of cheddar that`s quickly snapped up. In fact 83% of all the cheese sold in the UK is cheddar. I like cheddar. I love cheddar.
Don`t get me started on goat`s cheese, quelle damage! Every restaurant has it but when did you last see more than a handful of goats. Like the taste, it`s very suspicious, a bit like Terry who is against leaving but has already left.
Jim

The wine I totally agree with....even the Aussie wine is better than the Brit stuff . But the cheese, I don't know. There are more varieties of cheese made in the UK now than in France, and some really stunning cream camembert / brie being made here . And of course we have the Stilton / Oxford Blue / Blue Vinney / Blue Leicester and many other blues, many of which are just sublime.

Lots more besides....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_British_cheeses

Next time you're over Rohan try some Stinking Bishop, which out-pongs the ripest of the French stuff! I find it bloody horrible, but some like it, especially if they have a cold.
Mark

Terry you miss the point of democracy. There is going to be no second referendum and no general election.

Regarding tariffs they are just protectionism. Sugar is a good example the EU pays farmers to produce sugarbeat when otherwise they wouldn't as it would be uneconomic. It then raises tariffs on the import of similar products (sugar cane) so that they are uncompetitive to import.

Similarly the UK is unable to raise duty on the import of steel and cannot intervene with our steel companies which are of huge national importance.

All that will happen is the uncompetitive and subsidised parts of the EU will be put on a level playing field with the rest of the world.

Bill,
You will get nowhere with your petition even if you get millions of signatures. Referenda are used for sovereignty and representation issue. We should expect to be governed for everything else.

AHM wrote:Terry you miss the point of democracy. There is going to be no second referendum and no general election.
.

I don't think you read my post........ "Unless someone sees sense"
There will be no 2nd referendum , nor a general election. The UK politicians are self centered and will only therefore have themselves at heart.

Going back to my earlier post yet again

Good Luck, see you in 9 years!
I will miss the Dorset cerial museli but my wife says we can make it using local ingredients.

AHM wrote:
Bill,
You will get nowhere with your petition even if you get millions of signatures. Referenda are used for sovereignty and representation issue. We should expect to be governed for everything else.

Not really, they are on any issue that the government thinks is important enough. We have had 3 referenda and the one in 1975 was clearly about trade; (sovereignity and immigration were clearly played down) and the main buzzwords were "Common Market".

So the precedent is already set. We already had a referendum on trade ;the basis of the 1975 referendum, was

We joined without publishing the terms for the population to see, these are the terms, now vote on whether we stay in the Common Market or leave it.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

I did try to simplify the 1975 referendum above but here are the actual words of the government pamphlet.

http://www.harvard-digital.co.uk/euro/p ... .htm#front

The exact question asked was not in the pamphlet, this is the closest bit.

You will get a ballot paper, and be asked to mark the ballot paper in one of two clearly marked places, in order to record a Yes or No vote about Britain's continued membership of the European Community (Common Market).

Ah, I found another quote for the exact question.

Faced with the referendum question, "Do you think the UK should stay in the European Community (Common Market)?" Britons voted "Yes" in most of the 68 administrative counties, regions and Northern Ireland. Only Shetland and the Western Isles voted against the EEC.

oh I read your post Terry
"without another referendum of some description." but then that is the EU version of democracy, and not yours isn't it.

terryp wrote:
Going back to my earlier post yet again

Good Luck, see you in 9 years!

Yes I agree the EU is exceptionally slow at agreeing trade terms 9 years is optimistic for the EU. that is why it has so few trade agreements!

Terry I'm sure you know how these things work - At the moment that the separation is agreed the announcement will be made for the "memorandum of understanding on trade tariffs". It would be madness on the part of the EU not to offer one. Not to do so would make German cars 10% and French wine 32.00 EUR / hl more expensive.

Of course the UK will do the same with the rest of the world, so we will have interim agreements with the rest of the world whereupon Australian wine for example will become 32.00 EUR / hl cheaper.

So if the EU offers no deal French wine will comparatively become 64 EUR per hL more expensive. Please do tell me how that would negatively affect the UK,

billwill wrote:Not really, they are on any issue that the government thinks is important enough.

Bill we have a parliamentary democracy - We elect parliament to make decisions. We have only held referenda on constitutional matters.

billwill wrote:How did you know I was bloody?

It's this warfarin that I have to take y'know one slight nick or bein too vigorous in from blowing my nose and there's red drippy blood all over the place.

thanks for that image you've just put in my head

I much prefer this one from 2013, you look amiable and not the sort to start an argument!