Lotus Elan

The EU Referundum for the UK.

PostPost by: terryp » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:29 am

You lot need to wake up. This hasn't even been reported in the papers yet!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu- ... 22?SThisFB

Good Luck and see you in 9 years

Terry
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:43 am

terryp wrote:You lot need to wake up. This hasn't even been reported in the papers yet!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu- ... 22?SThisFB

Good Luck and see you in 9 years

Terry


I refer you to my response in the other house
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PostPost by: terryp » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:57 am

me too!
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:02 am

So what are you saying?

https://youtu.be/w7RIgs3eygo?t=8 this?
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PostPost by: terryp » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:09 am

YES!
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:51 pm

My petition for a realistic second referendum has now been published.

I'd love all of you all that are UK citizens or living in the UK, to sign it too.

"In 2018 hold a referendum on whether negotiated EU Exit terms are acceptable."

Click this link to see the petition and start sharing it or sign it:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/155138
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:54 pm

terryp wrote:You lot need to wake up. This hasn't even been reported in the papers yet!
http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-eu- ... 22?SThisFB

Good Luck and see you in 9 years

Terry


Heh heh, that has just got to be a bucket of codswallop, from someone who doesn't understand (and has never bothered to read even a summary of) Article 50.

If it were true there would be no 2-year limit for negotiation in Article 50.
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PostPost by: terryp » Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:59 pm

Article 50 commences our exit that can last up to two years (Max 2 years)
After the UK exit the trade deal can be commenced to be agreed and experience has shown these can take anything but 7 years is not unusual.

Their argument is that whilst the UK are a member they cannot negociate with themselves

It's now also been confirmed by the President of the EU

As I said, good luck.

Terry
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:17 pm

terryp wrote:Article 50 commences our exit that can last up to two years (Max 2 years)
After the UK exit the trade deal can be commenced to be agreed and experience has shown these can take anything but 7 years is not unusual.

Their argument is that whilst the UK are a member they cannot negociate with themselves

It's now also been confirmed by the President of the EU

As I said, good luck.

Terry


I don't think that there exists a President of the EU (yet); that was one of the main reasons why the vote was to LEAVE.


THe whole point of having an Article 50 is that it makes it possible for the leaving member to negotiate terms for use after leaving, otherwise it might as well be a one day or one month process from invoking Article 50 to being a non-member.
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:17 pm

Bill,
I admire the sentiment, and I must point out I voted remain, but I'm unable to support you on this non democratic action.

The majority voted leave and that's what we have to work with, no ifs, no but's, just plain old "the people have spoken " or voted or whatever.

As a social experiment I wanted to wholeheartedly embrace the European experiment and see it through to its fruition of a unified and prosperous entity, but that won't happen. It's a crying shame, but it won't be possible to vote again without making a worse mess of the whole thing.

Great Britain is a powerhouse of innovation and technical excellence, there's no way that "Brussels" can ignore or punish us to the extent that it destabilises the EU.

The current negative comments from Europe are led by unelected bureaucrats, the people in power who really matter are facing elections within the next 18 months, do you really think they are going to tell their voters that jobs are going to be lost because they the leaders of the EU need to punish Great Britain for leaving?

I'm backing Britain!
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:26 pm

Er, are you saying that you think petitions and referenda are non-democratic ?
Or maybe you didn't actually read what my petition says and tink it is asking for the referendum of the 23rd June be redone, like 4 million deluded people thought they petitioned for.


My petition is very similar in principle to the 1975 referendum, in which the act of joining the EEC had already been done, but then the terms of EEC membership were published to the UK population followed by a referendum which essentially asked: In view of these terms and conditions, do we stay in or do we get out.


Clarification:
Mine is saying do we accept the LEAVING terms that they will have spent two years negotiating or do we just reject the terms and leave using the default situation (which is trading on World TRade Organization rules). The actual leaving is inevitable once Article 50 is invoked.
Last edited by billwill on Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: terryp » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:29 pm

billwill wrote:
terryp wrote:Article 50 commences our exit that can last up to two years (Max 2 years)
After the UK exit the trade deal can be commenced to be agreed and experience has shown these can take anything but 7 years is not unusual.

Their argument is that whilst the UK are a member they cannot negociate with themselves

It's now also been confirmed by the President of the EU

As I said, good luck.

Terry


I don't think that there exists a President of the EU (yet); that was one of the main reasons why the vote was to LEAVE.


THe whole point of having an Article 50 is that it makes it possible for the leaving member to negotiate terms for use after leaving, otherwise it might as well be a one day or one month process from invoking Article 50 to being a non-member.


No! Article 50 is for negociating exit only, fees to be paid, laws etc etc. Trade deal after, listen to the lady and the president!
As I said , see you in 9 years!
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:57 pm

It's only been a week! God help us in a years time..... Keep calm.

Bill I respect your argument, but I refute it as irrelevant and undemocratic. The vote was to empower the UK government on behalf of the electorate to remain or leave the EU. The result was to leave, clearly and concisely.

Don't call me stupid or Shirley or call my parentage into question.... You bloody long haired hippy!
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:00 pm

How did you know I was bloody?

It's this warfarin that I have to take y'know one slight nick or bein too vigorous in from blowing my nose and there's red drippy blood all over the place.
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PostPost by: billwill » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:06 pm

terryp wrote:
billwill wrote:
No! Article 50 is for negociating exit only, fees to be paid, laws etc etc. Trade deal after, listen to the lady and the president!
As I said , see you in 9 years!



Not as I see it in the actual wording of Artivle 50:

the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union.



To me that includes trade-deal negotiations.

Fees ... Pay pro rata for the year up to the day we leave.
Laws .. what the UK does with its laws after leaving is no business of the EU. The UK will keep those it thinks OK and repeal those which it thinks not OK.

That doesn't take 2 years to talk about.
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