Lotus Elan

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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Sun Oct 13, 2013 1:32 pm

Hi all,
I've recently bought a M/Cycle & will need a crash helmet so that I can start riding it.
So I've been thinking that said helmet could also be used for driving my Elan on track days etc.
That will mean that the helmet will need to conform with today's spec's/requirements.

Can you guys tell me what I must be looking for & hopefully some good addresses where I can buy one for a reasonable price?

Presently I'm thinking of buying an open face helmet.

Cheers
John
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Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Sun Oct 13, 2013 3:52 pm

Not sure regarding open face John, as I use closed face for both motorcycle and track days.

Understand the two Snell specifications for motorcycle (M2010 and/or M2015) and Motorsports (SA2010) have become more divergent. I found it difficult to find a helmet that met both specifications. I ended up buying a Motorsports helmet this summer as I didn't want to risk having grief on the day of the event. I needed to buy one anyway as my existing motorcycle helmets didn't meed SA2010 anyway. My local retailer didn't have anything that met both revised specs, although you may be able to find something I suppose. I believe one of the primary differences between the two specifications regards the fire proofing of the liner.

Ratings
  • M2010 rated helmets are for motorized highway vehicles/motorcycles and racing that does not require a fire retardant rating. They have a nylon liner.
  • SA2010 rated helmets are used in competitive automobile racing and require a fire retardant rating. They have a Nomex liner and Kevlar chinstrap.

What are the differences between the SA, M and K standards?

The SA standard was designed for competitive auto racing while the M standard was for motorcycling and other motorsports. The K standard was released to accommodate helmets used in karting. There are three major differences between them:
  • The SA standard requires flammability test while the M and K standards do not.
  • The SA and K standards allow for a narrower visual field than the M standard (Some SA and K certified helmets may not be street legal).
  • The SA and K standards include a rollbar multi-impact test while the M standard does not.



I assume there must be other differences that make it difficult (or perhaps not cost effective?) to meet both standards in one hat. For example, a motorcycle hat would presumably have greater abrasion resistance I think. For practical purposes all the motorcycle closed face helmets I have include better venting to prevent visor fogging and heat buildup.

These links may help you out...

http://www.smf.org/cert

http://ultimatemotorcycling.com/motorcy ... -05-snell/

Interesting topic, and look forward to better clarity from others.

PS What bike did you get?

HTH
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PostPost by: twincamman » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:02 pm

Ok Snell foundation tests a M helmet that is constructed to take one huge hit as happens in a motorcycle accident when riders head hits the road or a car .... Snell SA is designed to accept a lot of smaller impacts ,like the roll bar and whatever there is to hit in a car crash ......And is nomex lined.......but 10 dollar head 10 dollar helmet.......
Last edited by twincamman on Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:12 pm, edited 4 times in total.
dont close your eyes --you will miss the crash
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PostPost by: PeterK » Sun Oct 13, 2013 5:07 pm

John
Unless you're buying a cruiser and joining a 1% motorcycle club (MC), then I strongly suggest a full face helmet for the motorbike. Even using a properly fitting full face helmet, a crash at Mallory resulted in me being briefly knocked out and a scar on my chin - I dread to think what would have resulted with an open face helmet.

For 'open' track days you don't need a crash helmet, so you don't need to comply with Motorsport rules, so wear what you want.

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PostPost by: Bud English » Sun Oct 13, 2013 7:34 pm

Twincamman has a good point about not wanting to skimp on your head protection, but take care. I have personally tested my fair share of (US) DOT certified helmets and witnessed testing by Snell and US Testing labs. A higher price doesn't ensure a superior helmet. Buy a well known brand that is certified by an external testing lab like the Snell foundation.

The dirty little secret of motorcycle helmet testing is that they are only impact tested at what amounts to parking lot speeds (even the Snell certified ones). Any impacts at higher speeds and you need a lot of luck added to all the engineering. Overall the Snell tests are a lot more comprehensive than the (US) DOT tests (done in-house by each manufacturer). I don't know how either compare to any EU test requirements or the tests for motorsport helmets.
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:02 pm

stugilmour wrote:Not sure regarding open face John, as I use closed face for both motorcycle and track days.

Understand the two Snell specifications for motorcycle (M2010 and/or M2015) and Motorsports (SA2010) have become more divergent. I found it difficult to find a helmet that met both specifications. I ended up buying a Motorsports helmet this summer as I didn't want to risk having grief on the day of the event. I needed to buy one anyway as my existing motorcycle helmets didn't meed SA2010 anyway. My local retailer didn't have anything that met both revised specs, although you may be able to find something I suppose. I believe one of the primary differences between the two specifications regards the fire proofing of the liner.

Ratings
  • M2010 rated helmets are for motorized highway vehicles/motorcycles and racing that does not require a fire retardant rating. They have a nylon liner.
  • SA2010 rated helmets are used in competitive automobile racing and require a fire retardant rating. They have a Nomex liner and Kevlar chinstrap.

What are the differences between the SA, M and K standards?

The SA standard was designed for competitive auto racing while the M standard was for motorcycling and other motorsports. The K standard was released to accommodate helmets used in karting. There are three major differences between them:
  • The SA standard requires flammability test while the M and K standards do not.
  • The SA and K standards allow for a narrower visual field than the M standard (Some SA and K certified helmets may not be street legal).
  • The SA and K standards include a rollbar multi-impact test while the M standard does not.



I assume there must be other differences that make it difficult (or perhaps not cost effective?) to meet both standards in one hat. For example, a motorcycle hat would presumably have greater abrasion resistance I think. For practical purposes all the motorcycle closed face helmets I have include better venting to prevent visor fogging and heat buildup.

These links may help you out...

http://www.smf.org/cert

http://ultimatemotorcycling.com/motorcy ... -05-snell/

Interesting topic, and look forward to better clarity from others.

PS What bike did you get?

HTH


Wow! All of the answers in one hit; this is so often a good place isn't it.
Many thanks indeed.

The bike is a '64 Triumph Trials Tiger Cub with Sammy Miller modifications; I fancied one for years & this one just sort of cropped up last weekend.
So much for me swearing that I'd never climb on a bike again :oops:

Cheers
John
Beware of the Illuminati


Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Sun Oct 13, 2013 9:55 pm

Good grief!
I've just looked at the prices being asked for SA2010 helmets-----------------------------I'm not so sure that my life is worth that much :mrgreen:
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Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
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PostPost by: twincamman » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:15 pm

I once watched the car in front hit the wall another car and flop upside down on the front straight , when I saw the driver after the race and saw his helmet with large worn spot on the side I voiced my concern , he looked at me and said "Hell there was another 50 feet left on that helmet" .......
dont close your eyes --you will miss the crash
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PostPost by: StressCraxx » Sun Oct 13, 2013 11:55 pm

Besides the differing safety standards, the other considerations are comfort and fit.

Another difference between MC helmets and SA car helmets is the eyeport position. That may affect your decision if you go full face.

Regards,
Dan
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PostPost by: twincamman » Mon Oct 14, 2013 3:49 am

Go for the full face then you can be MING THE MERCILESS RULER OF THE UNIVERSE......... :lol:
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PostPost by: cal44 » Mon Oct 14, 2013 11:23 am

"reasonable price"..........to protect your head........................hmmmmmm
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:32 pm

Not sure where you looked or expectations John, but my SA2010 full-face was about $250 with an additional neck brace. I think my Shoei motorcycle hats were about $450 each, with really good venting, good aerodynamics. Fit is personal and critical, so try some at a retailer for sure.

The full face motorcycle helmets tend to be tight in the cheek area, so check that out. Costs tend to rise for brand name, graphics, and venting features. Also, a better MC helmet will be much quieter for wind noise, which is a big issue with me. Other issue that is not readily apparent is a higher speeds (say over 80 mph) a cheep helmet will want to lift off your head reducing touring comfort. Make sure (with a full face again) the face shield can be raised and lowered easily with heavily gloved hands.

Numerous MC mags do annual product rating articles that can help with selection. Generally speaking, you 'get what you pay for', and not a good place to go for lower cost. I would recommend a brand name with good fit and ratings. Here is an example, or try Google search

http://www.ridermagazine.com/category/b ... e/helmets/

Not sure about 'open track days' your side of the pond, but in my limited experience over here an SA2010 helmet is always required for a track day or Autocross. Might not be needed for club organized parade laps at say a lunch break during a track day or race, but those are typically lead and follow at very modest speeds. The organizing body may have loaner hats available, but check before booking or bring your own.

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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Mon Oct 14, 2013 6:43 pm

Hi Stu,
many thanks for all of the top tips.
My new toy will not do more than 70mph so speed is not a big factor.
The requirements for track days in my Elan does throw things in a different light & considering the demanding requirements I will stick to the ones that you can borrow at the track. I just thought it would be nice to be able to take my own along.
With regards to fit, I couldn't agree more. My helmet will be tried on in a shop & bought from that shop.
Now I am really considering a full face helmet; my initial feeling was that an open helmet would be more in keeping with the 1964 trials bike that is my new toy. But hey I suppose the right thing would be a cloth cap! :D

Cheers
John
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Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
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PostPost by: oldelanman » Mon Oct 14, 2013 7:07 pm

GrUmPyBoDgEr wrote:The bike is a '64 Triumph Trials Tiger Cub with Sammy Miller modifications; I fancied one for years & this one just sort of cropped up last weekend.
So much for me swearing that I'd never climb on a bike again :oops:


A Triumph Tiger Cub was my first motorised transport - a great little bike.
Roger
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Mon Oct 14, 2013 10:03 pm

oldelanman wrote:
GrUmPyBoDgEr wrote:The bike is a '64 Triumph Trials Tiger Cub with Sammy Miller modifications; I fancied one for years & this one just sort of cropped up last weekend.
So much for me swearing that I'd never climb on a bike again :oops:


A Triumph Tiger Cub was my first motorised transport - a great little bike.


I'm fulfilling a teenage dream :oops:
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Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
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