EU MOT Proposals

[ardee_selby]

Anyone seen the Classic Car Weekly report?

"NEW EU MOT TEST LOOMS"

"STRINGENT NEW VEHICLE TEST WILL CAUSE CLASSIC HAVOC"

"...classics won't be roadworthy if they're modified from standard"

"...could take as many as half of British classics off the road"

"What is a classic car?"

"The EU says vehicles of historic interest fulfil the following conditions:

* It was made at least 30 years ago.
* It is maintained by replacement parts which reproduce the historic components of the vehicle.
* It has sustained no change in technical characteristics of engine, brakes, steering or suspension.
* It has not been changed in appearance."

Richard

[George4th]

Richard
Presumably an expert in all classic cars will be employed at all MOT testing stations!
I don't beleive its enforceable.

In France they say lots of things like that but it never quite happens!

George (4th!)

[cal44]

.........the bigger the government..........the smaller the citizen. Bet the U.K folks are happy they didn't join in that.

[Chancer]

In France they say lots of things like that but it never quite happens!

George (4th!)

Sorry to burst your bubble but the following is exactly how it works and has always worked in France for not just classic cars but all vehicles.

* It was made at least 30 years ago.
* It is maintained by replacement parts which reproduce the historic components of the vehicle.
* It has sustained no change in technical characteristics of engine, brakes, steering or suspension.
* It has not been changed in appearance."

The 30 years was 25 years until quite recently.

You will fail a CT (mot) if the tyre size has been changed from that which on the homologation papers, if you look at the tuning scene in France you will learn that "tuning" means spoilers and skirts, no engine or mechanical changes whatsoever The place is sadly full of Kevmobiles:(

I think about the only thing that has ever been allowed was a change of steering wheel, probably not even that now with airbags, even in the 70's they would go wild about bubble arches on Escorts as they werent even allowed to put on slightly wider wheels let alone flaired arches, as a consequence there was a good market for the homologated works cars.

You cannot even buy pattern parts in France if they concern braking, steering, suspension and even bodywork, the manufacturers have a rigidly enforced monopoly and it is illegal to sell or fit anything other than manufacturers parts (although the fitting isnt enforced), and I am not talking about OE parts, it has to come from the manufacturer, of course Renault, Peugeot and Citroen charge double for these parts in France than they do elsehere in Europe.

You cannot even buy a rear light cluster or door mirror in France except for from the main dealers, and that goes for imported vehicles like Ford, Vauxhall etc as well, thankfully E-bay comes to the rescue of those of us unwilling to take it via the nether regions, also the motor factors just over the border in Belgium do a roaring trade.

[prezoom]

Should make for a lively series of posts on fleabay, when you can no longer drive/posess your vintage/classic/appearance enhanced/slightly modified car.

That large body of water is certainly comforting.

Rob Walker
26-4889

[Bud English]

A couple of quotes I ran across today that may apply....

Liberalism: Ideas so good they have to be mandatory.

Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good.

[Henry VIIII]

Those requirements are insane. Let's hope we have at least SOME politicians who will not give in to such crap.

The purpose of an MOT is to ensure that no faulty vehicles are on the road, not to ensure that they still contain exact replicas of the faulty components that they were first sold with.

[Henry VIIII]

This article has almost the exact opposite theme:

http://www.aftermarketonline.net/News/I ... ic-car-MOT

[Henry VIIII]

I'd guess that THIS is the definitive information source.

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/publications ... guides.htm

[Robbie693]

Sounds very much like the Type Approval Regulations that are hanging over the motorcycle community.

http://www.mag-uk.org/en/campaignsdetail/a6972

[prezoom]

Here, the Speciality Equipment Manufacturers Association (SEMA) closely watches pending legislation and goes to long lengths to protect owners/restorers of classic, vintage, hotrods, and slightly modified current car against onerous, restrictive potential legislation. Agree with it or not, the National Rifle Association (NRA) also provides the same sort of watchdog service. Both are extremely effective in protecting car/gun owners from this sort of oppressive law making.

It seems, those who reside in the EU need to band together and form the same sort of organizations to prevent legislation that will restrict them from enjoying their cars. After all, what is really necessary is allowing cars that do not present a hazard to themselves or others to operate on the countries roadways. I believe I was told that vintage car owners in Belgium cannot operate their cars after dark. This sort of legislation is capital stupid.

Rob Walker
26-4889

[UAB807F]

I'm not sure if it's a problem or just some journalist looking to make up a few column inches to a deadline and whip up a bit of hysteria along the way so you'll buy the next issue.

Firstly, as others have said, how on earth will your average MoT tester have a clue what's original, an equivalent replacement or a modification ? They might stand a chance on a Morris 1000 or a 1990s Escort, but what about a 1960s Marcos ? Having had one of those, it seemed to me that they were built with whatever parts came along at the time rather than a factory specification for a run of 10,000 cars. Heck, we're all enthusiasts/experts on here and there's times when we don't know what's OEM or not on our own cars !

But even if, by applying sledgehammer & nut logistics, they incorporated a list of every car registered in the last 50yrs and their specifications into the MoT database so the testers could check on-line, so what ? That quote says "historic interest" which, in the UK, presumably means the free road licence. So tweek the car and it's no longer an "historic vehicle", but that doesn't imply you can't use or drive the car and will be hounded off the road, it might just mean you have to buy a tax disc. You pays your money, etc ?

(part quote)
Much of the social history of the Western world over the past three decades has involved replacing what worked with what sounded good.

Bud, sadly that's just so true with 90% of what I see coming out of the EU legislators. To give you guys over there a chuckle, just look at a few other things they've come out with...

"According to European Commission Regulation No. 1277/88, if a cucumber bends more than 10 millimeters per 10 centimeters (0.4 inches per 4 inches) in length, it cannot be categorized as "class one" and may therefore only be sold as a second-rate cucumber. But who wants to buy one of those? Most second-rate cucumbers -- at least according to conventional wisdom -- never make it to market."

You couldn't make it up..... at one time they produced legislation covering the shape/colour/etc of over 36 types of fruit & veg sold within the EU. To be fair I think they've repealed that one, but it does show how they think.

Brian

[George4th]

In France they say lots of things like that but it never quite happens!

George (4th!)

Sorry to burst your bubble but the following is exactly how it works and has always worked in France for not just classic cars but all vehicles.

* It was made at least 30 years ago.
* It is maintained by replacement parts which reproduce the historic components of the vehicle.
* It has sustained no change in technical characteristics of engine, brakes, steering or suspension.
* It has not been changed in appearance."

The 30 years was 25 years until quite recently.

You will fail a CT (mot) if the tyre size has been changed from that which on the homologation papers, if you look at the tuning scene in France you will learn that "tuning" means spoilers and skirts, no engine or mechanical changes whatsoever The place is sadly full of Kevmobiles:(

I think about the only thing that has ever been allowed was a change of steering wheel, probably not even that now with airbags, even in the 70's they would go wild about bubble arches on Escorts as they werent even allowed to put on slightly wider wheels let alone flaired arches, as a consequence there was a good market for the homologated works cars.

You cannot even buy pattern parts in France if they concern braking, steering, suspension and even bodywork, the manufacturers have a rigidly enforced monopoly and it is illegal to sell or fit anything other than manufacturers parts (although the fitting isnt enforced), and I am not talking about OE parts, it has to come from the manufacturer, of course Renault, Peugeot and Citroen charge double for these parts in France than they do elsehere in Europe.

You cannot even buy a rear light cluster or door mirror in France except for from the main dealers, and that goes for imported vehicles like Ford, Vauxhall etc as well, thankfully E-bay comes to the rescue of those of us unwilling to take it via the nether regions, also the motor factors just over the border in Belgium do a roaring trade.

OOps forgot to say I do speak from experience of living permanently in France for over 9 years ..... the West Northumbershire is a bit of a blague

As I said its unenforceable. How is the local testing station going to know whether 185 tyres are wrong for a 40 year old +2 or whether the correct sized carburettors are fitted etc etc etc

George 4th

[Chancer]

I had a suspicion that you might be George as I knew exactly what you meant, say lots of things but it never happens, however when it comes to pathetic attempts to protect their own useless auto industry, well thats a different matter.

I dont think what has been reported will ever happen and its just journalistic scare tactics, at the moment were you to have a Plus 2 registered in France in the normal manner, not as a voiture de collection (for others voitures de collection have severe restrictions on their useage) then the CT tester would indeed be checking that standard wheels and tyres are fitted, but as you say what chance would he have of knowing............

For a couple of years now voitures de collection have had to go through the CT (MOT) test like all others, perhaps its part of the aligning of all the national laws (for others before that a classic car was never tested) and anything after 1972 must pass an emissions test at 4.5% CO which I believe has now been reduced to 3.5%, thats tough

[George4th]

Bonjour (as they say)
4.5% for Late 1972 to 1986 - No problem for a standard Elan, you may just have to disconnect the air cleaner to get a final few percentage points!
3.5% for 1986 to 1995
After 1995 don't bother!

You can choose which to register CGC or CGN for a UK/EU registered Elan/Elan +2. No more restrictions on usage for a CGC only possible rumours of future city controls. My guess it will be the other way round that old cars with CGNs will ultimately be restricted , CGCs will be OK as the minister fought for a long time for free out of departmental usage.
US registered cars have to go the CGC route as Lotus won't issue a COC.
There is no current disadvantage of having a CGC only the advantage of having your CT every 5 years instead of every 2 years.

Older cars without a COC or any homologation documentation have a certificate from the FFVE. There does not seem to be any check on specification only that the car has an engine that looks as if it belongs in the car and the car looks to be in the spirit to what it was originally constructed.

Bon Courage to all

George (4th)