Lotus Elan

What is your dream modified Elan ?

PostPost by: jpt » Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:41 am

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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Aug 26, 2011 8:27 am

jpt wrote:The Elan Super Sprint strategy is here!
http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/elan-f15/new-elan-gets-the-axe-t22805.html

Jon


Jon,
Sorry, but I'm puzzled by this reply? Nice of you to parallel my efforts with Lotus, but my car is actually going to happen.
1) The R&D department has finished the car mechanicals
2) The decorator is painting the shell right this minute
3) Adam (pasta pesto) has made me one off bespoke Tim baiting sidewinder stripes
4) I have sacked the accountants
5) The trimming department is on standby
6) Mr Pelly is already drooling and planning a trip to Pevensey Bay in October to meet up for fish n chips so the locals can slobber over our creations.

The current Evora (silly name) should really be relaunched as the Elan but they need to chop the roof first.
Kindest regards

Alan Thomas
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PostPost by: billwill » Wed Aug 31, 2011 6:16 pm

Spyder fan wrote:
trw99 wrote:Oh I say Alan, you have gone and modified your avatar!

Tim


Tim,
You're the first to notice after 2 weeks :roll: Have you deciphered the wording on the family crest yet? This was designed for me by Richard (ardee selby)

Thomas Family Crest.jpg


Heh Heh, I don't think one is allowed to go around designing & displaying your own Crest. It has to be done by the School Of Heraldry or some such name.

Smailliw Llib
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:27 pm

College of Arms old chap, tally ho!
Beware of the Illuminati


Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Thu Sep 01, 2011 12:43 pm

I tried to talk Alan into this swap but he was too sensible but wanted to have something a bit different (less Costly?). This engine is small,compact (for something that came out of Detroit), and has been used in many different applications over the years. The engine is at least as old as the Elan and it just looks the part when parked in a 4 cylinder engine bay. This is one of the local folks cars, the Swap was done a long time ago and it still a very nice ride.

It just looks right in there
MGA mkII V6 bay.JPG and


MGA mkII V6.JPG and


garyeanderson wrote:Maybe heretic is not the correct word, but a twin turbo Buick V6 with a pair of intercoolers might get you banned from this site. Think outside the box, I hate the phase but it may be 265 cubic inch engine that breaks the box wide open.

Image

A bit of repackaging might be needed for the turbos and intercoolers but the basic V6 Buick is a fairly small package and at 295 pounds (134kg) with alloy block and heads, its not all that heavy and may actully have the same front to rear weight distribution. I think you may need to upgrade the English diff in the rear but I am sure that Spyder could help you there and I don't think making power would be much of an issue even naturally asparated it would scare you.

Basic dimensions are from the Dave Wiliams engine weieghts listing are
Engine - - ---- - - Weight - Length -Width - Height
Buick 3.8 V6 - - - 367 - - - 22.0 - - 24.0 - - 24.2 - Circle Track, August 1994
Ford Kent OHV -- 260 - - - 21.0 - - 22.0 - - 24.0 - Fast Car, February 1992 (British)

Length, height and weight of the Kent are about the same as the Twin Cam, not sure width but probably a little bit greater than the Kent. both engine weights are for Iron blocks and in the case of the Kent and Buick V6, Iron heads.

Bellhousings are available for the Buick V6 to T5 gearbox and with the Chevy S10 shifter and tail housing it should be just about a bolt in. :)

Text
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... index.html
Photos
http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engi ... to_01.html

the building block - Price: $3,995.00
Image
TA Performance
http://www.taperformance.com/proddetail ... d=TA_V3800
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Thu Sep 01, 2011 1:10 pm

A twincam it had, so a twincam it got...!

http://www.britishv8.org/MG/SteveBowen.htm
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Thu Sep 01, 2011 2:18 pm

I had a 1600 Miata engine and 5 speed box in my shop for a number of years, I never even got it close to the Elan. It didn't look right it only had 14,000 miles on it. I sold it to a friend for what I paid. In that same time period I did manage to mock up a Twin Cam block with the Ford C-4 transmission out of a 71 Pinto Automatic into the Elan chassis. It needed a mkII version with some more engineering then I was willing to invest in it at the time. No pictures that install The only photo I could find show the basic box and its pretty big. The C-4 would have added about 50 lbs and lost a gear but it would made for a sweet ride. Like most everything else I picked up a spare just in case it was good.

check it out!
c4kit.jpg and
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:53 pm

Gary,
I looked at the Miata (MX5) 6 speed gearbox as a straight bolt on for my Duratec. Spyder said it was a no go due to the difficulty in re-locating the gear shift lever and the extremely awkward position for the starter motor. Tony Penzoti managed to use one on his BDG Elan conversion by chopping through the casing and cutting and shutting the rods for the gear shift lever and then grafted on a bellhousing to suit the BDG (type 9 I think?). It took him at least 40 hours work, all of which he did himself, if I could have one thing different on my car it would be the 6 speeder. It's a huge gearbox compared to the 4 speed Elan box.

We don't seem to hear much about the Neil Myers 6 speed conversion, has it died a death? Does anyone know......

Dream engine would be one of those V8 Megabusa's, but only in my dreams I think.
Kindest regards

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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:15 pm

GrUmPyBoDgEr wrote:
cliveyboy wrote:What is all this talk of putting a Zetec in to make it more reliable.
The twincam is a great engine and if fuel injected with a mapped ignition system , I cant see much difference over a Zetec other than horsepower.
My list of things to aim for are.
Twin cam with fuel injection, Fully mapped ignition,
Leather interior and axminster carpet for comfort.
Electric motors on headlights.
Rotoflex conversion.
All perfectly straight forward and do able.

As for a Zetec powered Type 14 Elite. Howard Emmes? did this a few years ago and quite impressive it was.There was even a convertible option.

Clive



Hi Clive,

yes I did have a big sniff around his prototype that he displayed at Donington some years ago.
I liked the idea but found that the proportions of his car just didn't match those of the original.
Also he had made too many compromises in order to incorporate a Spyder frame.
The engine could have been moved much further back int the engine bay, improving the weight distribution & avoiding that horrible hump in the bonnet.
At the time I thought the price to be too high, but today's prices for original Elites or even Elans throws another light on that.

Anyway this thread was, I think, started for fun; or even, dare I say, as a wind up!
Something our friend does not shy away from most of the time.
Considering some of the replies I think he did a bloomin' good job at winding up some of the members & so far I've enjoyed his "bit of fun" :lol:

Cheers
John


Clive / John,
A very nice older gentleman came round to my house about ayear ago and bought a few of my cast off parts from the S4, we sat in my kitchen and had a coffee whilst chatting about Lotus cars in general, he seemed mildly interested in my +2 zetec and S4 project and left his card for me to contact in the future if I felt I needed the benefit of his advice on any matter. The above conversations lit up a small and malfunctioning part of my brain (memory) so I dug the card out, I really didn't know that I was talking to a fellow molester and a pioneering one at that.

Howard Emes.jpg and


I have edited the card to remove personal contact details.

Regards
Kindest regards

Alan Thomas
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:45 pm

Re: Elites &

"yes I did have a big sniff around his prototype that he displayed at Donington some years ago.
I liked the idea but found that the proportions of his car just didn't match those of the original"


Not au fait with this at all...but "prototype", "proportions didn't match"...does that mean no Elites were actually sacrificed?
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:01 pm

ardee_selby wrote:A twincam it had, so a twincam it got...!

http://www.britishv8.org/MG/SteveBowen.htm


I bet that's a nice conversion in the flesh, to drive as well as look at. One of the problems with modifying/updating classics is the general lack of marque specific engine upgrades, the chief objection with Elans is the removal of an iconic engine and replacing it with a non specific engine from a mainstream saloon, none of the later Lotus specific engines are really suitable to put into an Elan therefore that route is closed and the modifier has to look at mostly Ford power plants as the closest genetic link. With an MGA the choice must be really limited, but the twincam MX5 must be sweet as a nut in that car.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Thu Sep 01, 2011 7:59 pm

Not true! The BDA was a direct development of the Lotus twincam, and both engines were designed by the same guys. They refined this into the BDG and then on to the BDR and BDT in the 1980s. The last one was fitted into the RS200 which in race trim developed over 450bhp, and in road-slow mode, 300bhp.

A great selection of engines, all derived from the Lotus Twincam concept! And of course, winding the clock right back to 1966, they developed the FVA which was also based on the Ford bottom end and which went on, in concept at least, to become the DFV, one of the most successful F1 engines ever built.

All (except the DFV!) will go into an Elan continuing and even enhancing the exotic nature of the car, providing a period enhancement with direct lineage to the twincam whilst retaining the Cosworth and racing pedigree of the Lotus marque.

Lots of options!
Mark
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:39 am

Elanintheforest wrote:Not true! The BDA was a direct development of the Lotus twincam, and both engines were designed by the same guys. They refined this into the BDG and then on to the BDR and BDT in the 1980s. The last one was fitted into the RS200 which in race trim developed over 450bhp, and in road-slow mode, 300bhp.

A great selection of engines, all derived from the Lotus Twincam concept! And of course, winding the clock right back to 1966, they developed the FVA which was also based on the Ford bottom end and which went on, in concept at least, to become the DFV, one of the most successful F1 engines ever built.

All (except the DFV!) will go into an Elan continuing and even enhancing the exotic nature of the car, providing a period enhancement with direct lineage to the twincam whilst retaining the Cosworth and racing pedigree of the Lotus marque.

Lots of options!
Mark


Mark,
I didn't realise that, none of them have a Lotus badge on them, I thought they were Ford engines; by association is the Zetec a direct descendant then?

regards
Kindest regards

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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Fri Sep 02, 2011 7:48 am

Yes it certainly is, built for mainstream rather than competition or sporty road use....but that makes it the reliable and efficient engine that it is.

Except, last week my Mrs' ST170 went bang! That has a 2 litre Zetec (although the cam cover says Duratec) and the dual mass flywheel decided to part company with itself, taking with it the concentric slave (which was starting to leak anyway!) the clutch and a few other sundries. ?2000 later, the super reliable engine is again, super reliable for another 30k miles, I hope!

So they are very good, but not infallible

Mark
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Mon Sep 05, 2011 7:55 am

Mark,
Ouch! apparently dual mass flywheels don't react well to people who ride the clutch, a pity for you the ST170 engine is quite different to a cooking 2:0 zetec, in cost terms that is. Is the VVT mechanism mechanical or electronic?

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/faq/dual-mass-flywheels/

I think this is the main reason my BMW Mini has hill start assist. You can put the car in neutral and hold it on the footbrake (uphill or downhill), the brakes will then hold the car stopped until the car is once again in gear and the clutch pedal is released or after approximately one second from the moment the brakes are released whichever is soonest. The result is that the clutch is not under a lot of stress if this feature is used correctly, this is helped by the auto stop start technology which stops the engine when neutral is selected and the clutch pedal is released (assuming the car is actually stopped of course) depressing the clutch pedal starts the engine again and by the time you have selected firs gear its all ready to go again.
Apologies to those who may be familiar with this system, but some may find it interesting.
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