What is your dream modified Elan ?

[Spyder fan]

A bit of gentle banter on another thread revealed that Tim Wilkes (trw99) has a secret lust for a +2 zetec customised to his taste so long as he could still have an original Sprint in the garage as well. I won't mention exactly what he would choose in the hope that perhaps he will join in here and expand on this for us all.

My own dream modified Elan is very slowly being finished at the moment, there's enough about it on my other thread so I won't bother any of you with the details again here, but it would be very interesting to know how others would like to modify an Elan given the opportunity perhaps to own an original as well as a modified car.

Don't be shy, I'm sure there are some very interesting pipe dreams out there.

Regards

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Zetec/Duratec drive train in a Spyder frame & big fat Boranni's with a Mk14 Elite body planted on top.
Drool, slobber etc.
John

[nebogipfel]

I dream that they have all been modified back to original

(That way Elans would have an image as the true classics they are and not as bitsas, kitcars, or customised cars)

[elansprint71]

26/R.

I would change lots of things: oil, water, hydraulic fluid, air in the tyres, the tyres themselves once in a while.

[jimj]

I wouldn`t have read this thread but to see what Pete had said, disappointingly not quite as cynical as he might have been. My dream Elan would be an S3 modified with a Sprint engine, CV driveshafts, and a 5 speed box. Any change to it`s intrinsic character might as well be a change to something else altogether.
Jim

[stugilmour]

How about stuffing in a Suzuki Hayabusa with six speed sequential box or a Honda S2000 drivetrain. Don't know the feasability, but these high reving gems hit the right notes. Understand the Hayabusa fits in the Westfield Seven, and there was a chap posting about trying the Honda engine a while back. Would have to be a Plus 2 for me though.

[nebogipfel]

Any change to it`s intrinsic character might as well be a change to something else altogether.
Jim

Precisely Jim, couldn't have put it better myself. You don't read about Healey, Jaguar, MG or TR owners fitting Zetecs and Duratecs (whatever they are ), they might make subtle modifications for reliabilty or safety but they don't take a perfectly good classic car and turn it into a bitsa.

It only seems to be Lotus owners who feel they have to take one of the worlds best sportscars and change it into something which is no longer a Lotus, in my view to the detriment of the marque.

[Spyder fan]

How about stuffing in a Suzuki Hayabusa with six speed sequential box or a Honda S2000 drivetrain. Don't know the feasability, but these high reving gems hit the right notes. Understand the Hayabusa fits in the Westfield Seven, and there was a chap posting about trying the Honda engine a while back. Would have to be a Plus 2 for me though.

I don't distinguish between Elans and Elan +2's. The Busa would fit no problem, there's a 1558 cc version that actually looks like an original twincam, read about it herehttp://www.holeshot-racing.co.uk/index.php?page=h2-4-busa

H2_busa1.jpg (13.87 KiB) Viewed 1143 times

there's a V8 Hyabusa that Gary Anderson mentioned to me when I was looking at different engine options, see it here http://www.holeshot-racing.co.uk/index.php?page=holeshot-hartley-v8 now that would be a really interesting project.

Regards

[Spyder fan]

Any change to it`s intrinsic character might as well be a change to something else altogether.
Jim

Precisely Jim, couldn't have put it better myself. You don't read about Healey, Jaguar, MG or TR owners fitting Zetecs and Duratecs (whatever they are ), they might make subtle modifications for reliabilty or safety but they don't take a perfectly good classic car and turn it into a bitsa.

It only seems to be Lotus owners who feel they have to take one of the worlds best sportscars and change it into something which is no longer a Lotus, in my view to the detriment of the marque.

Ahem! your attention should be drawn to the links below

http://www.eaglegb.com/
http://www.jdclassics.co.uk/cars/jaguar-mkii
http://www.frontlinedevelopments.com/products/mgb/categorykseries.shtml
http://www.britishv8.org/Triumph/DanMasters.htm
http://www.mgcars.org.uk/frontline/k-series.htm

Some people like continuos development and others like to preserve, it's obvious which camp you are in ........ I rest my case

[nebogipfel]

............ it's obvious which camp you are in ........

You could be right Alan

I note the links you have provided and yet I still think that Lotus classics seem to suffer more modification than other marques. I do think that if you go to a mixed model car show most of the other classics are pretty much as they left the factory and yet lots of Elans and +2's seem to have sometimes extensive modification and from my casual observation this seems more so stateside.

I know it's each to his/her own but I do think as I've stated previously that this is to the detriment of the cars and gives Lotus an image problem that other marques do not have.

I also don't understand why anyone would take a Lotus and turn it into something which is arguably no longer a Lotus? Why not start with a kit car? But I guess it ain't my thing as you correctly observe so I'm never going to get it.

[Elanintheforest]

John, I think that you're right that Elans attract owners that like to tinker, or re-engineer. In fact I think that it's all the Lotus cars from the 60s. Many Sevens had twincams put in before the 60s was out, Europas had Rover and Ford V8s installed, and my Plus 2 (and a few other Elans) had a BDA installed in 1971. Elites would get a Kent engine or a twincam when the Coventry Climax had climaxed. I guess that Lotus owners often have a great interest in the race side of car ownership, and originality means little to the race boys!

E Types do get their fair share of mods though, with 5 or 6 speed boxes being almost the norm now. In the USA, the V12 of the S3 has often been replaced with good old Ford V8 muscle (everyone knows how to fix them), whilst over here the Strombergs get thrown away in favour of an injection system.....9 mpg vs 25 mpg is a pretty good arguement! Smaller items like cooling, exhaust, suspension, wheels and even now the seats are rarely original specification.

Whist I admired the looks and the specification of the BDG Elan at Donnington, I doubt that I'd enjoy using it very much as it must just be so way overpowered for the chassis, suspension and tyres. I don't know what the performance figures would be on it, but 0 - 60 in 4 or 5 seconds would seem reasonable if you could get the tyres to grip. A TVR Griffith, bought now for ?10k or so, can do that and it it was properly engineered as a whole car. The suspension, brakes and tyres were designed as a whole to accommodate 350bhp, the noise, harshness and vibration have been managed to the industry standards of the time, and the bottom line...a team of very smart engineers put it together. OK, like a Lotus, it was done on the cheap, but done a darned sight better than any enthusiastic amateur could do it. It will also top out at 165mph, tick over all day in traffic in summer without complaining, and in the day was fine for commuting or pottering down to the shops.

And you could have one of those, and a mint standard Elan, and ?50k left over, for the price of the BDG Elan.

As the TVR is now 20 years old, imagine what a properly engineered performance car from the current day is like?

So I think on balance that I probably wouldn't have a modified Elan parked alongside the standard one...or ones. But I would have something that is the product of a professional design team from recent years to get the performance, and more, that is being sought by re-engineering an Elan by using a different engine, drive train and suspension etc.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't have a standard Elan either....it's very easy to get a good, tractable and reliable 145 bhp from the twincam now, so that would be under the bonnet, but everything else would be standard.

But the BDA engine Plus 2 stays here!

Mark

[nebogipfel]

Hi Mark,

I pretty much disregard much of what goes on in the US as a nation they seem almost genetically predisposed to having to improve and re-engineer everything

I don't want to set myself up as the originality police I think sensible modernisation for reliability and safety is often a wise move. I chose CV drive shafts for just that reason.

My main point is why buy a Lotus (particularly an Elan ....probably the best car in world) and then think OK I've got this lovely classic car, full of period features and character and now I'll change it all. I would argue that if you take the twink out of an Elan you have removed a large part of the heart of the car. (Please see PM)

My main point however is as I have previously said I think (and this is only my pet theory) that Lotus Elans and +2's suffer an image problem and it is to the detriment of the marque. There have been discussions on here about why Lotus values have lagged behind other, usually lesser cars and I posit that Loti seen as DIY cars may well be a factor, particularly things like big ugly flared wheel arches faired in headlights and bonnet pins (Ugh!!)

As I have said and you have no doubt deduced I really don't get heavily modified Elans. Why buy an Elan? It would make more sense to buy a sporty kit car and then re-engineer that ....with my blessing....as if you care

[trw99]

As Alan alluded at the start of this thread, I went off topic on the switches thread at one point to go public on my secret desire to own a +2 Zetec convertible as a daily driver.

I guess the appeal for me is that one has the reliability allied to the classic looks. Spyder have had long enough to sort out the chassis/Zetec combination so I would feel reasonably sure the car would start and work and be reliable. However I find myself appreciating my creature comforts the older I get so the inside would have some serious money spent on it too.

In much the same way I wouldn't half mind a XK150 drop top done up with JD Classics modernising bits and again it is the gorgeous retro looks mated to reliable modern engineering that appeals. The Paul Stephens 911 conversions also look rather mouth-watering! However dear listers, rest assured my heart always has, and always will remain true to the Sprint!

Tim

[Elanintheforest]

We know that, Tim! But are you saying, by implication, that Sprints in standard form are inherently unreliable? You should try an S3 Elan.....must be a very different animal!!

I had the opportunity a few years back to try a Mk 2 Jaguar that had been upgraded by Vicarage, with V12 engine, 5 speed box, air conditioning and comfy seats. It was horrible! Very powerful, but the tyres / suspension couldn't cope and it kept trying to go sideways, and approaching 90 mph or so, the wind noise from the old gutters and door rubbers started to take over from the engine noise. The whole thing felt wrong, and for the ?150k it cost to build, I can think of many other cars I'd have rather had!

Back to Elans. The twincam was a pretty exotic engine in its day, and is still regarded as such today. Yes it can get a bit lumpy and maybe even temperamental when hot, or used in traffic a lot, but then it just needs a good old Italian tune up to sort it out. Throwing a twincam away in favour of something out of a Mondeo or Focus does seem a little churlish. To exaggerate for a moment, the new crop of turbo diesel engines are powerful and efficient, but when I went to Prescott hill climb 2 weeks ago, the Bugattis were still running their inefficient and (relatively) low powered straight 8 supercharged engines, and so were the Alfa 8C racers. Do they know what they are missing??!

So to be a real improvement on the twincam, it has to be something that was even more exotic in period. The BDA was for sure, but that?s been done a few times now. I think it has to be the Ford FVA engine in an Elan as my ultimate, the same spec as the Team Lotus Mk 2 Lotus Cortinas, with about 200bhp....just right! And the sound of the gear-driven cams would have you screeching up to 9000 rpm at every opportunity. But not much good for going shopping.

Mark

[elansprint71]

John, I think that you're right that Elans attract owners that like to tinker, or re-engineer. In fact I think that it's all the Lotus cars from the 60s. Many Sevens had twincams put in before the 60s was out, Europas had Rover and Ford V8s installed, and my Plus 2 (and a few other Elans) had a BDA installed in 1971. Elites would get a Kent engine or a twincam when the Coventry Climax had climaxed. I guess that Lotus owners often have a great interest in the race side of car ownership, and originality means little to the race boys!

E Types do get their fair share of mods though, with 5 or 6 speed boxes being almost the norm now. In the USA, the V12 of the S3 has often been replaced with good old Ford V8 muscle (everyone knows how to fix them), whilst over here the Strombergs get thrown away in favour of an injection system.....9 mpg vs 25 mpg is a pretty good arguement! Smaller items like cooling, exhaust, suspension, wheels and even now the seats are rarely original specification.

Whist I admired the looks and the specification of the BDG Elan at Donnington, I doubt that I'd enjoy using it very much as it must just be so way overpowered for the chassis, suspension and tyres. I don't know what the performance figures would be on it, but 0 - 60 in 4 or 5 seconds would seem reasonable if you could get the tyres to grip. A TVR Griffith, bought now for ?10k or so, can do that and it it was properly engineered as a whole car. The suspension, brakes and tyres were designed as a whole to accommodate 350bhp, the noise, harshness and vibration have been managed to the industry standards of the time, and the bottom line...a team of very smart engineers put it together. OK, like a Lotus, it was done on the cheap, but done a darned sight better than any enthusiastic amateur could do it. It will also top out at 165mph, tick over all day in traffic in summer without complaining, and in the day was fine for commuting or pottering down to the shops.

And you could have one of those, and a mint standard Elan, and ?50k left over, for the price of the BDG Elan.

As the TVR is now 20 years old, imagine what a properly engineered performance car from the current day is like?

So I think on balance that I probably wouldn't have a modified Elan parked alongside the standard one...or ones. But I would have something that is the product of a professional design team from recent years to get the performance, and more, that is being sought by re-engineering an Elan by using a different engine, drive train and suspension etc.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't have a standard Elan either....it's very easy to get a good, tractable and reliable 145 bhp from the twincam now, so that would be under the bonnet, but everything else would be standard.

But the BDA engine Plus 2 stays here!

Mark

At last a voice of reason!

I have probably tweaked this and that every month since I got the current Elan ten years ago; yet still consider myself a "correcting original errors and short-cuts sort of bloke" rather than a "modifier".

Each to his own; as General de Gaulle was heard to mumble.