Lotus Elan

Team Lotus 60 years ago.

PostPost by: ardee_selby » Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:03 pm

60 years ago...about now, I guess.

Can anyone pinpoint the date?

Cheers - rd
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PostPost by: trw99 » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:17 pm

I would guess July. They did not race the Mk III that month, it looks pretty well sorted in the photo, though I cannot see the snorkel and Hazel is dressed in a summer frock.

It has to be between May and October as that was the season for the Mk III in 1951.

Best I can do!

Tim

PS Hazel and Colin went on a motoring holiday to Scotland that year ... in that Mk III
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Thu Feb 10, 2011 4:44 pm

trw99 wrote:Best I can do!

Tim

PS Hazel and Colin went on a motoring holiday to Scotland that year ... in that Mk III


Tim, Good enough for me. Many thanks.

Cheers - rd
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sat Feb 12, 2011 7:19 pm

trw99 wrote:I would guess July. They did not race the Mk III that month, ............

Tim



15th July: Maidstone and Mid-Kent MC Ramsgate Speed Trials: Class 5 Hazel Williams 3rd. Class 9 Michael Allen 1st.

21st July: Sheffield & HMC Gamston: 750cc Sports Cars ACB Chapman 1st.

28th July: Aston Martin OC Silverstone: Race 4 NSD Allen 2nd. Race 6 Miss H Williams 1st.

I was only eight weeks old for the first race but I have a good memory. :wink:
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PostPost by: trw99 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:13 am

Thankyou Pete, I stand very much corrected! I only did a quick search of my books for RD. Clearly you have more better informed data.

So if it's not July, I still reckon mid summer that year. I can fondly imagine the photographer popping around one evening to Mrs Allen's, picking up Colin and the gang, trooping around to the garage, getting the pose right and then they all go and have a drink at the pub!

Tim
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PostPost by: billwill » Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:49 pm

Was that really Muswell Hill, or was it the garage near Turnpike Lane..

I remember being with Club Lotus members when we unveiled a plaque abot Lotus on a wall in that vicinity, but I wouldn't be able to find it without physically going there now.


<later>
Or Hornsea or somewhere, {I've been looking on Google maps & street photos & am now thoroughly confused as to where it was :lol: }

I don't live far from the vicinity, so I'll go look sometime.

If the above photo really was Muswell Hill does anyone know exactly the address?
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PostPost by: trw99 » Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:16 pm

Bill

I think this was at the Allen brothers home in Muswell Hill. They were neighbours of Hazel's parents and had "an exceedingly well equipped garage", which is where I believe the Mk III was built. At this time Colin lived with his parents at 33 Beech Drive.

Tim
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PostPost by: 1964 S1 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:51 am

...and into the legal courts it goes with Team Lotus sixty years later... from three guys working on a race car to multi million pound/dollar lawsuits.
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:07 am

trw99 wrote:Thankyou Pete, I stand very much corrected! I only did a quick search of my books for RD. Clearly you have more better informed data.

So if it's not July, I still reckon mid summer that year. I can fondly imagine the photographer popping around one evening to Mrs Allen's, picking up Colin and the gang, trooping around to the garage, getting the pose right and then they all go and have a drink at the pub!

Tim

Tim,
May I recommend Lotus the Early Years, by Peter Ross? A superb read and written, unlike lots of other books of "facts" by someone who was there right from the beginning (and is still with us). It is full of previously-unpublished photos and has lots of detail drawings of the first cars (from memory it goes up to about the time of the Mk VIII, although I could be wrong). It was published about 2004 but I got a discounted new copy last year from Amazon.

The book will tell you who did not pay any wages and never paid for a round either. :wink:

Cheers,
Pete.
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PostPost by: billwill » Sat Aug 20, 2011 11:30 pm

Note: This messages is all wrong.. The location I went to is not the correct location for the original Lotus works. See further messages below.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a message above I mentioned that I was present (quite a lot of years ago) when Club Lotus fastened a commemorative plaque on the wall of the old Garage/Stables of the Railway Hotel, where Lotus began building Lotus cars in 1952.

I also said above that I had been back there more recently and been very puzzled because I was unable to find it.

Anyway, a recent Club Lotus News (2011 July) included a map of the early Lotus locations, so I was able to supplement my poor memory. http://www.datahighways.co.uk/photos/lo ... s_1024.jpg

I checked it on Google maps in the satellite picture mode & realised that in the years since that plaque was mounted they have built a whacking great big block of flats, spanning the road which we originally used to access the external wall of the historic Lotus Works, which is why I couldn't recognise anything.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=tottenh ... 6&t=h&z=18

So I made another attempt to visit it a few weeks ago, but was defeated by traffic conditions, and uncertainty about where I could get access, so I still didn't find it.

Anyway to cut a long story short I had another chance to go there today and this time I parked in Gisburn Road and walked into the gated private road behind the block of flats.

:( Sad to say, I think i can say that the original Lotus Works building is long gone and no-one apparently thought to re-mount the plaque in the vicinity. Below is what it looks like now, a recreation area for the block of flats, mostly grass but with a large concrete slab area which I suspect is the actual location of the original Garage/Stables. The only other possibility is the garage building in the back yard of the building that used to be the hotel (it is a classic Barclays Bank architecture http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=tottenh ... 18.58,,0,0), but that garage looks like a modern replacement.

Image

This photo was taken from the private road, towards the North East, it shows the grass and the concrete slab and the back of the old hotel and the newer garage building that I mentioned. (I don't think there is any vehicle access to that building.
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:30 am

Bill,

Re: "The only other possibility is the garage building in the back yard of the building that used to be the hotel"

Here's another clue. As you can see, it refers to "the Lotus factory behind the Railway Hotel"

Chappers.jpg and


Cheers - Richard
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PostPost by: billwill » Sun Aug 21, 2011 12:39 am

Ah, true but I think the back yard was much bigger originally & included the area or most of the area I showed in the photo above.


I recall we fixed the plaque on the North Wall of the workshop. & that new building I showed above, just simply is too close to the back of the hotel.

I may have a photo of the plaquing ceremony, somewhere, but it will be extremely difficult to find in my clutter.
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PostPost by: richardcox_lotus » Sun Aug 21, 2011 10:56 am

Hi Bill

I believe it's still there. The building you want to be looking for is part of Jewsons - on google maps its the the one between the old railway hotel (marked on the map as "access self storage" and Jewsons.

Regards
Richard
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PostPost by: billwill » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:48 pm

richardcox_lotus wrote:Hi Bill

I believe it's still there. The building you want to be looking for is part of Jewsons - on google maps its the the one between the old railway hotel (marked on the map as "access self storage" and Jewsons.

Regards
Richard


I'll go have another look. That's quite a long way away from the location shown on the map in Club Lotus News. I think someone posted a photo of the Railway Hotel (or was it called Station Hotel) on this forum a while ago, but I have not re-found the photo.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=tottenh ... 6&t=h&z=19

On the Google street photos, the building marked "access self storage" is a pub called The Wishing Well.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=tottenh ... 0&t=h&z=19


Oddly two different view of that building seem to show two rather different fronts, as if Google took their photos there on two wildly different dates.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=tottenh ... 0&t=h&z=20
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PostPost by: billwill » Sun Aug 21, 2011 11:59 pm

Hmmm, this is most mysterious.

This ColinChapman site has a picture of the plaque and says that the site is intact and they want to make it into a museum.

http://www.colinchapmanmuseum.org.uk/Index.htm

Image

A page on that website says the workshop was at 7 Tottenham Lane. & this lotus document clearly shows an address of 7 Tottenham Lane.
http://www.colinchapmanmuseum.org.uk/Lo ... broch2.jpg


<later>

Aha at last..
http://www.colinchapmanmuseum.org.uk/About/Plans.htm

You were right.

Image

is now:

Image


I shall go & have a pint & maybe some lunch in The Wishing Well in the very near future, to finally convince myself.

Image

It's a pity that the idea of having a Lotus Museum in that Jewson building appears to have stalled.
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