Lotus Elan

When is an Elan no longer an Elan

PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Tue Feb 01, 2011 8:06 pm

Jens wrote:Damn you Andy.... ;)

You are spot on, but still.....

Ils sont fous ces Grecs.....


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Am I gonna have to Wiki your posts from now on :oops:
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Editor: On Sunday morning, February 8th 2015, Derek "John" Pelly AKA GrumpyBodger passed away genuinely peacefully at Weston Hospicecare, Weston Super Mare. He will be missed.
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PostPost by: billwill » Thu Feb 03, 2011 3:41 am

That advert says it is a LOTUS Evante, which is wrong, they were not made by Lotus.

Designed (I think) by George Robinson, they were made by Vegantune of Spalding, then a bit later they spawned a new firm called Evante Cars. The Venture capitatist who put up the money, did not understand the sports car market & Evante Cars went bust taking Vegantune of Spalding out with it. Shame really, it's a brilliant car and there are not many around.

Evante's have carbon fibre in the makeup of crucial parts of the body such as the built in front bumper and kevlar in the rest of the body such as bonnet. (bullet proof?)

When Vegantune were re-furbing my Elan in 1982/83, on one of my visits, George demonstrated the strength of the bonnet, by standing on it (on the floor). That would break an Elan bonnet.

There are lots of other changes in an Evante too, such as the Vegantune engine, which has external drive belt instead of a timing chain (and an external water pump, I think).

If that car has a Zetec engine, then perhaps it is not the original engine.

~~~~~~~~~~ later ~~~~~~~~~~~
Ah, it looks as if one of the last projects of Vegantune Spalding or Evante Cars Ltd was making that Zetec based engine.

After George's Vegantune went bust, Richard Marshall bought the name, some of the assets and UK servicing rights for the Evante cars. So Vegantune was re-born in Finchley London, UK.

I had various servicing and repair jobs done on my Elan by Richard's Vegantune and with what was supposed to be part of my payment, in 2001, I developed an active website for Vegantune (of Finchley), but Richard did not create the final 'content' for me so it was never launched. Pity really because it included a forum section etc.

Eventually when Richard got some more funding, they went for a crappy static, brochure website with FLASH animations etc. i.e a PR website instead of a useful technical one. Vegantune Finchley went bust too, could that be because he didn't use my web design??? 8) 8)

I'll try post here some of the text content that I did have from their paper brochures, which included descriptions of the Evante and the Vegantune VTA engine.
Bill Williams

36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:57 am

Elanintheforest wrote:A car restored to original specification will always get the top money, and in some cases, a highly modified car with non-original running gear will only get project car money.

Mark,

Do I take it that your BDA Elan is only worth project car money?

I don't think so. :)
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PostPost by: Jens » Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:26 am

Brian,

I the law of supply and demand is what this is really all about. Increasing the amount of modified Elans automatically decreases the amount of untouched originals. Leaving all other things equal (ceteris paribus) whe then will have an unchanged demand for original Elans with a decreased supply. The other way around there will be more modified elans for an equal demand. All together this leads to a decreased price of the modifieds. Often this is said to be a decreased demand, but as the demand, in exact numbers, remains the same (ceteris paribus again), it only seems to decrease as the supplied volume increases. So, the exact numbers stay the same and only the relative numbers change.
The untouched cars undergo the same but the other way around.
If you have 100 diamonds and are sitting next to a waterfall. The water won't be worth a dime. If you are in the desert with your 100 diamonds even one glass of water might be worth your entire fortune.

Cheers
J
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong - look at what they can do to a Weber carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver..." (CABC)

My one problem is that distance keeps me from my Elan. (36/5395)
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:01 pm

In Feb 87, the ad for Evante said demand was enormous. But, apparently, that only referred to the brochure.

Cheers - rd
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PostPost by: Jens » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:34 pm

RD,

If demand increases from 1 to 4... That means a 400% increase and is to be seen as enormous. :)
Wonder if the price did the same.

Cheers!

J - Between a glass of wine and GT Legends.

P.S.
Does anyone know how to edit cars in GT? Mine is White at the moment but should be red....
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong - look at what they can do to a Weber carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver..." (CABC)

My one problem is that distance keeps me from my Elan. (36/5395)
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Thu Feb 03, 2011 6:45 pm

Brian, my BDA Elan was for sale for 3 months before I bought it, and I paid roughly the value of the engine rebuild that it had recently had for the whole car. It is in stunning condition as well, with full history back to it being ordered at Cheshunt. But perfect bodywork and paint aside, it did need a new chassis.

It would be an easy one to put back to standard though, as all it would need would be a twincam and a bonnet...everything else is pretty much factory, which it seems is all that's needed for the power it produces...about 170bhp.

I think that the 'project car' price modified cars that I'm thinking off are the 'home produced' specials with every modification under the sun put in with great enthusiasm but little engineering skill. On top of that, big arches and a gaudy paint job from a current range Audi, an ally dash festooned with all sorts of instruments and switches, complemented with a rats nest of wiring hooked onto the original loom, now running very hot.

Even a professionally converted car can be difficult to move on. Just look at that Elan Sprint with the Zetec currently for sale. I spent a lot of time talking with the owner and pouring over the car at Donnington a couple of years ago. Well over ?50k has been invested in that car...it has been done properly. And yet he couldn't get half of that back after driving the car for a few hundred miles when trying to sell it privately.

If that had been a Sprint that had a ?40k Peter Day restoration, there would be a queue to buy it for ?40k...maybe more. Not a money making proposition, but the demand for a correct car is there.

I guess that for most folks into modifying the cars, it's the challenge and fun of doing the work that is the appeal...why would they want to buy something where someone else has had all the fun? I must confess that I'm a bit that way inclined when restoring a car back to original condition. Once completed, I move onto the next one to do, rather than fully enjoy the one I've just done. It's why I have a garage with a few completed cars and a barn full of projects!

Mark
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:08 pm

Jens,
You have a PM
rd
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Feb 03, 2011 7:44 pm

Elanintheforest wrote:Brian, my BDA Elan was for sale for 3 months before I bought it, and I paid roughly the value of the engine rebuild that it had recently had for the whole car. It is in stunning condition as well, with full history back to it being ordered at Cheshunt. But perfect bodywork and paint aside, it did need a new chassis.

It would be an easy one to put back to standard though, as all it would need would be a twincam and a bonnet...everything else is pretty much factory, which it seems is all that's needed for the power it produces...about 170bhp.

I think that the 'project car' price modified cars that I'm thinking off are the 'home produced' specials with every modification under the sun put in with great enthusiasm but little engineering skill. On top of that, big arches and a gaudy paint job from a current range Audi, an ally dash festooned with all sorts of instruments and switches, complemented with a rats nest of wiring hooked onto the original loom, now running very hot.

Even a professionally converted car can be difficult to move on. Just look at that Elan Sprint with the Zetec currently for sale. I spent a lot of time talking with the owner and pouring over the car at Donnington a couple of years ago. Well over ?50k has been invested in that car...it has been done properly. And yet he couldn't get half of that back after driving the car for a few hundred miles when trying to sell it privately.

If that had been a Sprint that had a ?40k Peter Day restoration, there would be a queue to buy it for ?40k...maybe more. Not a money making proposition, but the demand for a correct car is there.

I guess that for most folks into modifying the cars, it's the challenge and fun of doing the work that is the appeal...why would they want to buy something where someone else has had all the fun? I must confess that I'm a bit that way inclined when restoring a car back to original condition. Once completed, I move onto the next one to do, rather than fully enjoy the one I've just done. It's why I have a garage with a few completed cars and a barn full of projects!

Mark


Mark,
As I am absolutely sure you know THIS IS NOT ABOUT MONEY!!!!!

I have 1 car that owes me money and another that will owe me a whole lot more when it is finished. Who mentioned the wretched stuff?

Do I care that a zetec +2 and a project Duratec S4 with a roof chop has cost me more than a new shiny Evora S? Do I even mention the cost in my posts unless someone specifically asks? This is about passion and lust and who gives a damn about who thinks what I have made or have had made is good or bad, because I love it and it makes me feel good to do it!

I am targeting your post on this subject because I have met you and know that you share my passion for the history and spirit of Lotus and that you are unafraid to make your views and knowledge available to those who will listen regarding modifying or upgrading whilst still maintaining the character and unique essence of what makes a Lotus.

As many more gifted scholars than you or me will maintain, Chapman often raided the parts bin of ordinary mainstream cars from major manufacturers to make something special, but his true moments of genius were inspired from the efforts of individuals who took his road cars and modified them for competition or just for the sheer hell of it.

I do it for the sheer hell of it and I know that you and many others like Gary Anderson and John Pelly and Gerry and Bill and many others I don't mention but have had the pleasure to converse with on these forums do it for the love of it as well ....May others learn and improve on it and inspire us to do better.

Kindest Regards
Kindest regards

Alan Thomas
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:09 pm

I don't think that any of us restore a car to original spec or modify a car for money. My point is that once the work is done, the standard car will be much more desirable to more folks than a modified car, and that's reflected in the value the car will achieve.

The modified car is subject to 'taste', and some cars that have been modified display a huge lack of that! A standard car is also subject to 'taste', but as we're here all talking about Elans rather than MGBs, so we've already made that taste decision!

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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Thu Feb 03, 2011 8:14 pm

Mark,
To me my cars are much more tasty than any standard offerings!

Regards
Kindest regards

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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:06 pm

Photo from 1976... "When is an Elan no longer an Elan...?"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/5419126379/in/photostream/

Apologies for your having to click on the link; for some reason I can't paste the photo direct from Flickr to this site.

I forget the name of the bloke in the first car; the front and rear (flimsy) covers lifted off to reveal mainly F3 Lotus technology. The other car was/is owned by Jon Fletcher (it looks almost normal these days), and was a typical Modsports Elan from the period "...too hot? Cut a bit out of the front.." etc.

Perhaps of more interest is the background: the building on the left was the Officer's Mess when General Patton was stationed at Oulton, he (allegedly) planned the D-day landings, with Ike, from the bar of the pub in the nearby village. At the time of the photo it was used as a "hospitality venue", a very fancy name for a shed, imho; however, in those days track photographers could wander in, drink as much gin as you like and wobble out again. :twisted:
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PostPost by: Jens » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:16 pm

The firsc car looks more like a Porsche that has been washed too hot...

By the way, Broughton seems like a nice place! Bears a slight resemblance with Doel in Belgium....

cheers
J
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong - look at what they can do to a Weber carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver..." (CABC)

My one problem is that distance keeps me from my Elan. (36/5395)
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sat Feb 05, 2011 10:28 pm

Jens wrote:The firsc car looks more like a Porsche that has been washed too hot...

By the way, Broughton seems like a nice place! Bears a slight resemblance with Doel in Belgium....

cheers
J



:wink: Broughton is my next photo-project; second largest orthodox Jewish community in the UK.
No wonder my Elan is "rusting away". :wink:
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Mon Feb 07, 2011 11:28 am

http://freespace.virgin.net/bob.carter/lotus_elan.htm

Is it? Or isn't it? If not, why not? Please list your anwers here :)

Cheers - rd
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