When is an Elan no longer an Elan

PostPost by: Tahoe » Sun Jan 30, 2011 4:05 pm

I don't think there is any one right answer to this, but given the wide range of cars represented on this site, from 100% survivors to wild track cars, is there a point in your mind where any Elan or +2 no longer is an Elan or +2? Is an engine change, or 5 speed too much, how about a Spyder chassis and suspension, or a body change, or maybe it doesn't matter as long as the orignal plate is still with the car. Most modifications are reversable, so maybe if you have a highly modified Elan it doesn't matter if it can be brought back to almost stock. Just interested to hear your thoughts.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:06 pm

I like the rarity value of a truly original classic car, together with the driving experience of a car that is as close to the way it left the factory as possible. Luckily with the Elan, the chassis, brakes and handling are so good that it just gets even more fun with a bit, and even a lot, more power under the bonnet, and looses very little of the originality feel in the process.

Lotus cars have always been modified from the 1950s onwards?it?s that sort of car and it appeals to that sort of enthusiast. The Elan is infinitely restorable, and there are plenty left. The vast majority of the survivors have been through a chassis change or two, an engine rebuild or three and a few re-paints, and they may have been done to original specification, or modified. Either way, they are not original.

So my bottom line is that I don?t think it matters much, except of course that building a very non-standard Elan is a personal choice thing, and chances are, not many others will share your choice. A car restored to original specification will always get the top money, and in some cases, a highly modified car with non-original running gear will only get project car money.

There are exceptions to it not mattering of course, and one has recently come onto LotusElan.net?the S1 found by Silas in Oregon. What a stunning and original looking car that it, especially considering that it?s nearly 50 years old. If that was mine, it would be very carefully restored to as close to original spec as possible?it would be a crime to put a Zetec in that one?or a Spyder chassis, or minilites, or 26R arches!!

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PostPost by: andyelan » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:50 pm

Hi Russ

This subject of originallity is hardly new as even the achient Greeks a take on the subject.

Google "Ship of Theseus" or "Theseus' Paradox" and have a look at what Aristotle had to say on the subject. He probably explains things a bit better than me

Andy
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:51 pm

Very well put Mark,

what else can be said?
Nail on the head in one go.
And that's coming from me, the modifier.

John
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PostPost by: trw99 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:55 am

Yes, well put Mark. As someone in the classic car world said, your car is only original once.

Tim
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PostPost by: Jens » Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:40 am

This discussion applies to almost everything that has a name and a certain design. For instance the Eames Alu Chair is produced by Vitra in Europe and by Herman Miller in the US. Both of them are supposed to be "the Original" since they are both allowed to use the Eames name.
If you examine the chairs very closely and compare them to the original drawings you will find that Vitra has made very small changes in the original design, this due to production reasons. HM has not.
Hence, the question remains wich one is "more" original.

As for the Loti we all love, I for one am of the opinion that any modifications that are Period leave an Elan an Elan. Conversions including modern Zetec Engines, Cossies, big Turbo's or modern flappy-paddle gearboxes, in my opinion, are better applied to a Miata.

J
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My one problem is that distance keeps me from my Elan. (36/5395)
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PostPost by: cal44 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:04 pm

I live in the Boss 302 world. Start changing things and BAM!.............you just dropped value. That is why I like old cars, the quirky things about them.

If you want a new car then there are plenty out there.
Leave the old ones alone....................I understand if some parts are not available, then you have no choice, like a new frame.

Would you rather have a stock DB5 or a modified DB5? Which is worth more............hmmm?
Just a humble opinion.
Mike
"Be Polite, Be Professional, But have a plan to kill everyone you meet"
General "Mad Dog" James Mattis United States Marines
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:37 pm

I have 2 totally non standard cars ( a +2 zetec & an S4 Duratec project).

The +2 drives like a Lotus, handles like a Lotus, sounds like a Lotus and performs how a Lotus should, it is a Lotus.
My S4 when it is finished in time for summer will turn heads and make eyes go misty with nostalgia, it is and will always be a Lotus.
These cars excite me and satisfy me in a way that no standard specification car could do.

Modified Elans are alternative specification classics, they only stop being Elans when everyone says that they are not.

I don't like old sportscars that much, I don't like new sportscars that much, but I like my cars a lot.
Kindest regards

Alan Thomas
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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:12 pm

Spyder fan wrote:I have 2 totally non standard cars ( a +2 zetec & an S4 Duratec project).

The +2 drives like a Lotus, handles like a Lotus, sounds like a Lotus and performs how a Lotus should, it is a Lotus.
My S4 when it is finished in time for summer will turn heads and make eyes go misty with nostalgia, it is and will always be a Lotus.
These cars excite me and satisfy me in a way that no standard specification car could do.

Modified Elans are alternative specification classics, they only stop being Elans when everyone says that they are not.

I don't like old sportscars that much, I don't like new sportscars that much, but I like my cars a lot.

Well said, Alan.
My car is definitely, definitely, definitely not original with a roll cage, EFI fuel injection, QED420 head, Lotus 5 speed box, solid driveshafts, electric headlamp lifters, 14" Minilite wheels, leather seats, 26R steering wheel - and in a couple weeks it will be even less original with a new Ford Racing block. But everyone recognises it as an Elan.
I can't wait to get it back on the road......................... :)

However, if I had bought an S1 like Silas, I would want to keep it as "original" as possible.
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:12 pm

Mark,

You wrote "A car restored to original specification will always get the top money, and in some cases, a highly modified car with non-original running gear will only get project car money"

Not sure how the Evante is regarded (pigeon holed?) today, but this would seem to bear out what you said. Going for less than ?10K!

http://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C187661/#

Cheers - rd
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:39 pm

Having looked at the photos that Evante is most definitely not an Elan by any stretch of the imagination.
The doors look like Elan doors but they appear to fit; which is wrong :D
Did the earlier ones have more in common looks with the Elan maybe?
Nonetheless, interesting to see that they shoe horned the Zetec with its original intake system in to the engine bay.
The white ducting running along the side of the engine bay is intriguing! :roll:

John
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:53 pm

"The white ducting running along the side of the engine bay is intriguing"

Yes, looks like the Screwfix stuff I use for cloakroom extraction!

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/14118/Hea ... ing-1000mm

Cheers - rd
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Tue Feb 01, 2011 12:57 pm

ardee_selby wrote:"The white ducting running along the side of the engine bay is intriguing"

Yes, looks like the Screwfix stuff I use for cloakroom extraction!

http://www.screwfix.com/prods/14118/Hea ... ing-1000mm

Cheers - rd


Aha! probably connected to he underside of the seats then! :lol:
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:02 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:
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PostPost by: Jens » Tue Feb 01, 2011 5:39 pm

Damn you Andy.... ;)

You are spot on, but still.....

Ils sont fous ces Grecs.....
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong - look at what they can do to a Weber carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver..." (CABC)

My one problem is that distance keeps me from my Elan. (36/5395)
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