Would you have worked for Chapman?

[Spyder fan]

Just a note to all who are interested, it seems that ACBC is on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Anthony-C ... 1698675734
lots of interesting photo's and stuff!

regards

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Just a note to all who are interested, it seems that ACBC is on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Anthony-C ... 1698675734
lots of interesting photo's and stuff!

regards

I told you that he'd faked his death
Didn't think he'd be doing the Facebook thing though, the Law will be sure to find him

[elansprint71]

Read "Lotus The Early Years" by Peter Ross.

He was there. No opinions from regurgitating, plagiaristic journo-hacks and wannabes.

Nuff said.

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Read "Lotus The Early Years" by Peter Ross.

He was there. No opinions from regurgitating, plagiaristic journo-hacks and wannabes.

Nuff said.

Face it Pete, he's out there
John

[msd1107]

ACBC was sharp, but that sharpness may have cost Lotus more than the initial savings.

All the early people were very competent. But the best always keep in mind how they are doing, and find ways to show they are the best.

Mike Costin tried to get his brother Frank (the aerodynamicist and structural engineer at Haviland) to visit the Lotus factory and have a talk with ACBC.

Frank finally visited, just as they finished a new, elegant, and lightweight chassis. ACBC presented this to Frank with some pride. Frank looked at the chassis, picked it up, an allowed as that it would be ok if it lost some weight! ACBC stalked over to a corner and it took some time before the two sat down to see what Frank could contribute.

Well, Frank did the aerodynamics for the VIII, IX, X, and Eleven, all at very little cost to ACBC. ACBC and Frank also did the chassis and body for the BRM and Vanwall, for which they probably got paid well. And remember, Vanwall was the first British car to win the constructors F1 championship, ahead of Lotus.

Frank quit Haviland to establish a consultancy. ACBC did not say a word when he saw Frank's proposed rates, a huge mistake for Lotus's future. The Cd of the Elite was some 20% greater than if Frank had swept his magic ruler over the car, as he was to prove later with some mods for LeMans. One can only hypothecate what Elite sales might have been if Lotus had been able to advertise 125 mph for the car. And the Elan would have had even more improvements.

So, in retrospect, being sharp and tight may pinch some pennies in the moment, but doesn't work in the long run.

Just my opinion.

David
1968 36/7988

[andyelan]

Hi Everyone

Dave, I fully appriciate what you say about Frank Costin, he was undoubtably a brilliant engineer and aerodynamicist. However, don't forget that he did have a chance to prove himself with his own design wooden chassis car and with the Marcos GT. Now while I've nothing against Marcos and in fact I do quite like the GT, I dont think either the cars or the company could ever be considered to have been anywhere near in the same league as Lotus. This suggests to me at least that perhaps Chapman was the best judge of what was required to run a sucessful business or at least one that would survive.

This reminds me a little of Ferrari in the early 60s when some of Italys finest automotive engineeres walked out on him and decided to set up on their own to show him how things should be done. Today I think most people have heard of Ferrari but I wonder how many rember ATS

Regards
Andy

[msd1107]

Andy,

Frank Costin would be the first to admit he was no businessman. An engineers' engineer, he worked for the challenge, not the reward. And, unfortunately, some of his business cohorts took advantage of him.

Enzo Ferrari, and others, were autocratic and may have provided the psychological push out of unsatisfactory situations.

But many skilled engineers have the idea they can run their own company. ATS is only one of many examples.

I am involved in an equivalent situation right now, where an inventor and engineer of a product we are selling feels he can do a better job of marketing and sales than people with 25 years of experience.

But the main point was that Chapman, by his tightness and sharpness, lost the sharpest people who could have made Lotus even more successful than it is. Who knows what would have happened in the future if Chapman could have deferred the purchase of his first plane to compensate some of the early contributors more equitably.

But maybe not. Look at all the backyard startups. Lotus is arguably the most successful of them all.

David
1968 36/7988

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Apparently due out in May:-

Colin Chapman
Inside the innovator
Karl Ludvigsen


"Colin Chapman was one of the greatest ever creative forces in the automotive world but he left behind a mixed legacy. Was he an unparalleled innovator who advanced the state of the art of sports and racing cars? Or was he an uninhibited exploiter of the uncredited ideas of others? In death as well as life Colin Chapman excites fevered debate about his achievements and methods. Now Karl Ludvigsen gets to grips with the legend, digging deep beneath the skin of Chapman and his cars to explore and expose the motivations that drove this mercurial genius".


Hopefully good reading
John

[paddy]

They say genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. I think many of Chapman's innovations are widely recognised as not being completely original, but he still did the 99% by fair means or foul. He was clearly someone who made things happen. Then again - as our very own Mr B Ecclestone points out - so was Adolf Hitler.

Paddy

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

They say genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration. I think many of Chapman's innovations are widely recognised as not being completely original, but he still did the 99% by fair means or foul. He was clearly someone who made things happen. Then again - as our very own Mr B Ecclestone points out - so was Adolf Hitler.

Paddy

I think that Chapman was the one with the 1% Genius & the 99% Perspiration was done by his Staff, Engineers or not, in making the ideas work.
Ecclestone is another can of Worms worthy of debate.
We don't talk about the other Guy here

Cheers
John

[andyelan]

Hi There

Why is it we like to keep knocking Colin Chapman.

Colin Chapman started a business from nothing and made it into a world famous Marque and that business was sucessful in that it still survives today whereas may others have long since gone to the wall. As far as having his staff do all the hard work goes, well what else was he employing them for.

I believe some of the problem comes from the fact that Chapman was both head of Lotus and it's Engineer, perhaps if he had only been just one or the other we would then judge him much less harshly. After all, just how much engineering input do we think Enzo Ferrari, Ferruccio Lamborghini, David Brown, or indeed William Lyons put into their products.

Andy