Would you have worked for Chapman?

[Spyder fan]

Hi All,

A remark that was made to one of my posts on the +2 forum today got me thinking about what it would have been like working for the great man (ACBC). I, like most of you have read stories about him and I have met people who either worked with him or perhaps did a deal for a car and came off worse without even realising they had been charmed out of their hard earned cash.

I work for myself these days but I was taught a lot by one or two notable past bosses one of whom was an incredible control freak and another who was so laid back he was almost horizontal, what they had in common though was their ability to act as though they actually were interested in you as a person and respected your opinion whilst skilfully manipulating every situation to their own advantage without making you feel that you had just got shafted. In other words they had charm and a modicum of charisma backed up by an overdose of worldly wise confidence. From what I have read and heard about Colin Chapman he had all of those qualities and then some more on top of that making him a natural leader who inspired an almost unnatural loyalty and hard working commitment from all around him.

I'm 50 this year and I have run my own company since I was 40 and basically consider myself to be unemployable due to being too much of my own man, my last 5 years of working for someone else were spoilt by poor and uninspiring leadership, those 2 old task masters of mine made it difficult for me to accept working for someone who I couldn't respect or look to for inspiration. I was only 22 when Colin Chapman died, if I had worked for him when I left school at 16 until his untimely death I think that I would have worked for myself from age 25 instead of 40, maybe some of the charisma might have rubbed off on me and we would all be talking about THOMAS sports cars

[Elanintheforest]

An interesting thought! I would love to have tried, but don?t think that I would have survived very long, especially at the age his guys were when they worked for him. You have to remember that his sales guys, fellow directors and design team were mainly in their 20s in the Elite era, growing a bit older in the Elan era. Their skills, self belief and energy must have been phenomenal to have made it in that environment, especially considering how layered and structured society and most companies were in those days in the UK.

I think that the most difficult things to take if you were working in the road car area would be constantly taking 2nd place to the race car guys. Chapman hated the Elite once it was shown to be so fragile, had no interest in the Elan at all once it was launched, and positively despised the Plus 2, even before it got off the drawing board. The Elite and Elans were designed to be cash cows for the racing business?period. The Elite failed at this, costing Chapman dearly, but the Elan was the Golden Goose.

I attended a fascinating talk by Robin Read, the Group Sales director in the Elite era, who had some great stories to tell. He was 23 when he took on this role, and was fired several times by a very impatient Chapman. The deals he had to do, and the unsavoury characters he had to placate to sell Elites in the American market just defy believe today. And even once he?d done the deals, he then had to sort out the mess when Elites faded and buckled in the Californian sun even when they were on the docks!

Graham Arnold used to tell some great tales as well, and ended up in jail for his efforts working for Chapman, as did a few others. Wine women and song were of course all part of the day to day business, but illegal financing deals, blackmail and general immoral business practice seem to have been par for the course as well.

If it hadn?t been for folks like Read and Arnold, the road cars would never have got beyond the design / prototype phase. If it wasn?t for folks like Ron Hickman, they would never have got that far.

I think that I would have had a lot of fun working for Read or Arnold, but not for Chapman. I don?t think that I could have worked for Ron Hickman either as he was just too smart for me, and I?m sure that I couldn?t have faced up to my own inadequacies at such a young age!

[Spyder fan]

Mark,

A one liner reply to that would be" He was a Bastard but we loved him"

[msd1107]

Sounds like the perfect environment! I would have loved it. Unfortunately, I was only 8 when Lotus was founded, so would not have fit in.

18 hr days, 7 days a week.

Working with brilliant people, which stretches everybody.

And then melding together all the disparate personalities!

David
1968 36/7988

[richgilb]

I am an engineering retard, can't draw, don't like getting up too early, am badly organised, a bit scruffy and do not like authority. Do you think there would have been a role for me?

I can sing and speak Thai.

[stuartgb100]

Ah,

a genuine Thai-speaking tea-boy !!!

Regards,
Stuart.

[512BB]

Well post up some pics then Rich, lets see what you got! You forgot to add that you dont get on with women too well either in your list.

I digress. I help out an elderly gentleman, ex RAF, who when he returned home after the war, via a spell working in the Gulf, set up as chief engineer for Cessna at Panshanger airfield, near Hertford, importing the aircraft from the States, in crates, and assembling them there, for sale.

Now a certain Colin Chapman, and Graham Hill, kept their planes at Panshanger and Elstree, and my old boy delt with the pair of them on a regular basis. So much so, that they tried to persuade him to join the team permanently, maintaining their aircraft as they flew around the world, to Grand Prix. Good job he didnt, he reminds me on a regular basis, as we all know what happened to Graham Hill. And that might have been my old boys lot as well.

Happy days,

Leslie

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Sounds like the perfect environment! I would have loved it. Unfortunately, I was only 8 when Lotus was founded, so would not have fit in.

18 hr days, 7 days a week.

Working with brilliant people, which stretches everybody.

And then melding together all the disparate personalities!

David
1968 36/7988

That pretty well sums up the working environment in F1 even today; that is total commitment.
If you value your Family & private life with relatively poor wages the job's not for you.
Back in the period Mark has referred to, I was a young man working at RR Bristol & the MOD had canceled some major defence contracts, namely the TSR2 & the supersonic twin engined variant of the Harrier.
This caused a load of redundancies & a number of the more experienced Design Staff were tempted to look elswhere. I knew two of them who went to Lotus for interviews. I don't remember their actual description of Lotus but both said there was no way they would work for such people under such conditions.
There's no doubt about Chapman & his Teams ability to build winning Cars & especially ways of bending the rules, that part of it probably being the main reason for the racing successes they enjoyed.
Lotus still have the ability to pull an idea apart & rebuild it their way successfully, the Elise being a superb example of their way of finding alternative solutions to obstacles put in their way by rules & regulations.
At one time I was offered a job at March in their design office but there the same rules applied; total commitment & poor Salary, the Motto being "feel proud to be part of F1"
A lot has been written about Chapman & he was indeed inspired but his "used Car Salesman" background made him a most unpleasant person to have as a Boss.
I think he expected 100% but if you had a 99% Day you had to watch your back.
Hickman once had his Drawing Board in an adjoining office to Chapman's separated only by a large Window. Good if you are getting on well with each other but Hell if not.

So my answer to the question Definately not

Cheers
John

[richgilb]

hello sexy man. sit down please, do you want some drink?

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

hello sexy man. sit down please, do you want some drink?

Huh?

[trw99]

If you look at British companies that have done well over the last couple of hundred years, you'll often as not find that the driven entrepreneur who started them was so single minded in achieving their aims that everyone around them suffered - colleagues and families alike.

I am sure there are exceptions - Richard Branson, for example, though I do not have any experience of the man. I have always admired Martin Sorrell at WPP for what he achieved with an empty shell company that made wire shopping trolleys, but he was once referred to as an 'odious little jerk'; again, I've never met the man.

One of my best friends ran his own company and was a tyrant, at home and in the office. He ended up as a Member of Parliament - that soon changed him! I guess what I am saying is that if the Chapmans of this world weren't as 'enthusiastic' as they are, then they probably would not achieve all they do in their life times.

Tim

[Spyder fan]

hello sexy man. sit down please, do you want some drink?

Huh?

Don't worry John, Rich has been at the cooking sherry again

[andyelan]

Hi Everyone

Just one comment, does anyone here think that Enzo Ferrari might have been a easier boss to work for

Andy

[robertverhey]

Only if you were Dino.....

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Not one single one of them would be or have been good to work for.
IMHO All Automobile Company Bosses are up their own Ar5e5.
I for one am surely glad to be out of it; 27 Years of having to listen to their crap was long enough.
They even thought they were clever enough to save Rover, the stupid "Holy'er than thou" stuck up twits.
Now living at peace with myself.
John