Are 60's and 70's lotuses finally getting the recognition...

[dusty]

they deserve?

It would seem that it is not only our elans that are climbing rapidly in value, this 73 Europa fetched strong money this evening.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150385306634&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Considering it is in need of work (perhaps even a new chassis according to the seller)

It wasn't so long ago that the Europa (and plus 2) were a 5 or 6 grand car even in excellent condition.

what is fuelling this steep rise in value (apart from the obvious fact that they are great cars - though I thought that was meant to be a secret!)?

[twincamman]

I have been busy sourcing and cleaning tranny bits in preparation to repairing same to spend much time here ----but sadly in 15 years or so after the old guard and those like us have shuffled off this mortal coil I figure these cars and any thing like them will be of little value ---the kids now a days favour the Jap cars and view these old troublesome cars as nothing more than museum pieces owned by dinosaurs and have little or no interest in them ----ed

[Galwaylotus]

I have been busy sourcing and cleaning tranny bits in preparation to repairing same to spend much time here ----but sadly in 15 years or so after the old guard and those like us have shuffled off this mortal coil I figure these cars and any thing like them will be of little value ---the kids now a days favour the Jap cars and view these old troublesome cars as nothing more than museum pieces owned by dinosaurs and have little or no interest in them ----ed

Well, this dionsaur still likes a car with character. I'll put up with its foibles so that I can still DRIVE the car! BTW, my wife thinks I'm mad . . .

[twincamman]

As do I--- but today's kids look at the car and say ' what you do with carbs we do with injection and computers ' -----the SCCA formula ford gang has oked the use of Honda Fit engines and the class is called FF Formula Fit now . same horse power [105 guaranteed ] the engine looks like it was made for the cars and you don't look at it for 2 years . The old pinto engines were 18000 bucks a pop and every 5 events a fresh up bill had to be paid to keep the thing alive . better all around deal for the racers . The same deal with the 18 year olds --keep the hands clean and adjust the computer from the drivers seat ---so very sad --ed

[Elanintheforest]

I don't think that Europa was bucking any trend. One previous owner and never been mucked about with it was worth every penny. Very rare to see an Elan or Europa in that sort of original condition. Provenance and originality is everything!

Mark

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

That's very true Mark, a rare find indeed.
However Ed's remarks have made me also start thinking about the future of our Cars.
I belong to the "Baby Boomers" & like so many of us on here was brought up (& trained) to have practical abilities & played with things like Meccano as a kid.
I Watched James May's recent most boring program on the subject (BBC TV).
The point being that later generations will have been blessed with fewer people having either the training, ability or desire to do any job on an old Car, regardless of its inherent value.
The specialists who supply the much needed parts for our cars come from similar backgrounds & I wonder if there will be people who will continue the legacy once they retire (or the inevitable).
Even now we have to search for specialists who are capable of doing a decent paint job & we have to pay a premium for the job; is this the thin end of the wedge?
Maybe the higher prices demanded for our cars is an indication that present purchasers are placed in a higher income bracket & will be able to fund their repairs etc., that will have to be executed by an ever reducing number of specialists?
Life goes around & comes around, maybe our cars will be left languishing in Barns once again?

Cheers
John

[upnorthelan]

I worry about these things as well, except I'm 28 years old and just getting my S4 out on the track. The average age of members in my vintage club (VSCDA) is 66 years old. Who am I going to race with over the next decade? My Dad jokes that soon we'll engineer a cradle to drop him into his formula supervee. People my age are interested in the jap cars, but there are alot of us who grew up around old cars. I was taught how to adjust the valves on a formula ford when I was 11 and was soon thereafter practiced driving stick in a $500 MGB, I finally got to drive the FF when I was 14. My Elan is easy to work on, for the most part, and I dread wrenching on my modern daily driver. The old cars are light and free of traction control and power everything. How much does a new 911 weigh vs. one from the late '60s? I sometimes think about values of our cars, but I'm more conserned about finding gas when I'm 70.

[trw99]

I'm aware we are drifting a little off topic here, but I found this amusing point of view on the net, written by a New Zealand car nut:

The Future of Classic Motoring
During a weekend raid on my home by a Classic Car Club, the future of driving Classic & Vintage Cars, was raised. As I looked around the room I was struck by the notion that the future looked gloomy ? in fact, as some of the members discussed and compared their aches, allergies, prosthesis, inabilities and the dubious medications for each, I considered the future was very short term. In fact I became concerned that some may not be able to leave the property and this would create some embarrassment or at least some disruption to my own slowing lifestyle. It was with considerable relief we called the roll as all visitors departed and we were left with nothing more than a depreciated reputation for entertaining aged ?boy racers? in noisy vehicles.

In my mind, the Classic car culture is divided into 3 groups.

There are the Vintage owners who in turn have 2 sub groups ? slow running and slow restorations. I fell into this group a few years ago when I mistakenly thought that these cars were an ?investment? that would both provide my Minister of Domestic Affairs with the lifestyle she dreams of and provide me with an interest in my declining years. I was mistaken. The opposite occurred as I sold off most of the collection at considerable loss and accepted that my dotage activities were unlikely to be an issue because the MODA predicted I was unlikely to reach a respectable age. The future for this ?vintage? group will in my view remain little changed for 30 years. Both the slow restorations and slow running vehicles will be passed on to their offspring who have been genetically programmed to continue in their parents? rut. After the 30 years, the only change will be to the slow runners who are likely to become stationary due to the horrendous taxes placed on the vintage fuels they require. These cars will become works of art ? unless they are Italian which will have rusted away ? or shamefully American which will have become an embarrassment that the inheriting generation will wish to hide ? and will be put on display in cluttered garages for others afflicted by the same syndrome to gather around and discuss while drinking home-made beverages that probably played a part in their forbears purchase of the car in the first place. This is not a future to be looking forward to.

The second group is the ?show classic? owners of cars that they perceive to have a style or distinction that raises them above the ?ordinary? vehicles the common people bought. The majority of these are ?sports? cars. Often they will be 2 seaters with puny engines or 4 seaters with more cubic centimeters or in the instance of V8?s, cubic inches. The owners of these cars are a distinctive personality group that often matches their choice of cars. Many of them wear hats that compound their alienation at social functions. These cars are usually restored and are seldom exposed to dust or water in the form of rain. A ?mint original? will be owned by someone in the financial industries ? probably the owner of a Finance Company. Ownership of the ?show classic? is more like a religion and the meetings of owners have very much in common with church services ? quietly reverent and singing praises. These cars will last forever. That?s a sobering thought. ?Forever? is a long time. The vehicles will be passed from generation to generation together with the special rag and a belief that certain cleaning products are superior. They will continue to be used intermittently until denied the fuel oil resource they require. The price of fuel will not be a deterrent because the issue is ?being seen? rather than motoring. They can afford a little fuel to get them to the religious gathering but will eventually have to tow them behind their hydrogen powered utility vehicle to save the precious fluid for the ?demonstration?. A demonstration will involve period costumes and an adequate audience. Really, considering this, I conclude they don?t have much of a future either.

The third group, in my perspicacity, would never use a word like perspicacity. They are the owners of slightly tatty through to decidedly shabby cars that are always of a sporting nature. They span the ages from pre-world war II through to recent history and will inevitably be high mileage and stone chipped. They are driven by drivers. The roof will be removable the owners will be out there exposed to the elements defying God to strike them down with skin cancer. It is a little known fact that this behaviour is the very thing that saves them from the cancer and most other debilitating afflictions that are usually the product of boredom. Their therapy is the agricultural fragrances that they inhale with the vigor of a peeping tom in a nudist colony - together with dust covered insects. Their hats are excusable and may even have chin straps. These cars will also last forever and, unless their progeny are genetically modified by becoming vegetarian or too much texting, will be driven forever. They will be continually repaired and modified ? and when the oil is no longer available will be repowered with an engine likely to have a nuclear reactor lurking in its bowels. These are the real classic cars ? and the future is good. It is even possible at around 3010 our true classic cars will be transported to a planet dedicated to driving as we know it. I can hardly wait.

Copyright Maurice O?Reilly

Story available at http://www.maor.co.nz/Other%0Stories/The_Future_of_Classic_Motoring.htm

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

I'm aware we are drifting a little off topic here, but I found this amusing point of view on the net, written by a New Zealand car nut:

The Future of Classic Motoring
During a weekend raid on my home by a Classic Car Club, the future of driving Classic & Vintage Cars, was raised. As I looked around the room I was struck by the notion that the future looked gloomy ? in fact, as some of the members discussed and compared their aches, allergies, prosthesis, inabilities and the dubious medications for each, I considered the future was very short term. In fact I became concerned that some may not be able to leave the property and this would create some embarrassment or at least some disruption to my own slowing lifestyle. It was with considerable relief we called the roll as all visitors departed and we were left with nothing more than a depreciated reputation for entertaining aged ?boy racers? in noisy vehicles.

In my mind, the Classic car culture is divided into 3 groups.

There are the Vintage owners who in turn have 2 sub groups ? slow running and slow restorations. I fell into this group a few years ago when I mistakenly thought that these cars were an ?investment? that would both provide my Minister of Domestic Affairs with the lifestyle she dreams of and provide me with an interest in my declining years. I was mistaken. The opposite occurred as I sold off most of the collection at considerable loss and accepted that my dotage activities were unlikely to be an issue because the MODA predicted I was unlikely to reach a respectable age. The future for this ?vintage? group will in my view remain little changed for 30 years. Both the slow restorations and slow running vehicles will be passed on to their offspring who have been genetically programmed to continue in their parents? rut. After the 30 years, the only change will be to the slow runners who are likely to become stationary due to the horrendous taxes placed on the vintage fuels they require. These cars will become works of art ? unless they are Italian which will have rusted away ? or shamefully American which will have become an embarrassment that the inheriting generation will wish to hide ? and will be put on display in cluttered garages for others afflicted by the same syndrome to gather around and discuss while drinking home-made beverages that probably played a part in their forbears purchase of the car in the first place. This is not a future to be looking forward to.

The second group is the ?show classic? owners of cars that they perceive to have a style or distinction that raises them above the ?ordinary? vehicles the common people bought. The majority of these are ?sports? cars. Often they will be 2 seaters with puny engines or 4 seaters with more cubic centimeters or in the instance of V8?s, cubic inches. The owners of these cars are a distinctive personality group that often matches their choice of cars. Many of them wear hats that compound their alienation at social functions. These cars are usually restored and are seldom exposed to dust or water in the form of rain. A ?mint original? will be owned by someone in the financial industries ? probably the owner of a Finance Company. Ownership of the ?show classic? is more like a religion and the meetings of owners have very much in common with church services ? quietly reverent and singing praises. These cars will last forever. That?s a sobering thought. ?Forever? is a long time. The vehicles will be passed from generation to generation together with the special rag and a belief that certain cleaning products are superior. They will continue to be used intermittently until denied the fuel oil resource they require. The price of fuel will not be a deterrent because the issue is ?being seen? rather than motoring. They can afford a little fuel to get them to the religious gathering but will eventually have to tow them behind their hydrogen powered utility vehicle to save the precious fluid for the ?demonstration?. A demonstration will involve period costumes and an adequate audience. Really, considering this, I conclude they don?t have much of a future either.

The third group, in my perspicacity, would never use a word like perspicacity. They are the owners of slightly tatty through to decidedly shabby cars that are always of a sporting nature. They span the ages from pre-world war II through to recent history and will inevitably be high mileage and stone chipped. They are driven by drivers. The roof will be removable the owners will be out there exposed to the elements defying God to strike them down with skin cancer. It is a little known fact that this behaviour is the very thing that saves them from the cancer and most other debilitating afflictions that are usually the product of boredom. Their therapy is the agricultural fragrances that they inhale with the vigor of a peeping tom in a nudist colony - together with dust covered insects. Their hats are excusable and may even have chin straps. These cars will also last forever and, unless their progeny are genetically modified by becoming vegetarian or too much texting, will be driven forever. They will be continually repaired and modified ? and when the oil is no longer available will be repowered with an engine likely to have a nuclear reactor lurking in its bowels. These are the real classic cars ? and the future is good. It is even possible at around 3010 our true classic cars will be transported to a planet dedicated to driving as we know it. I can hardly wait.

Copyright Maurice O?Reilly

Story available at http://www.maor.co.nz/Other%0Stories/The_Future_of_Classic_Motoring.htm

Many a true word spoken in jest; you don't need a Crystal Ball to foresee our future

[adigra]

I am 32 and my Elan is my 3rd. classic/old car in the last 10 years. I work on my own car, and also help on two other Elans, and an AC Ace Bristol, and I absolutely love it and find huge satisfaction in both the fettling, and the driving. I do admit that I am the youngest person I know with a classic Lotus, but I think that has a lot less to do with the interest in the cars and a lot more with being able to afford and justify running a fairly specialised car as a hobby. There are a lot of young people in old Minis, MGs, Sprites, VW Beetles, etc. In fact, recently at a service station on the M1 I came across a big gathering of Citroen 2CVs mostly driven by people younger than myself. My hope is that people like that will stick with it and eventually migrate to the more specialist stuff such as our beloved Elans.

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

I am 32 and my Elan is my 3rd. classic/old car in the last 10 years. I work on my own car, and also help on two other Elans, and an AC Ace Bristol, and I absolutely love it and find huge satisfaction in both the fettling, and the driving. I do admit that I am the youngest person I know with a classic Lotus, but I think that has a lot less to do with the interest in the cars and a lot more with being able to afford and justify running a fairly specialised car as a hobby. There are a lot of young people in old Minis, MGs, Sprites, VW Beetles, etc. In fact, recently at a service station on the M1 I came across a big gathering of Citroen 2CVs mostly driven by people younger than myself. My hope is that people like that will stick with it and eventually migrate to the more specialist stuff such as our beloved Elans.

It was good to read that.
Looks like I worry too much about the future.
Oh me of little faith.

Cheers
John

[stonks]

Mine definitely the group three, looks ok, runs well, and most important will get used!

[Spyder fan]

Back on topic,

No...... 60's and 70's Lotus definitely don't get the financial recognition they deserve. They are expensive to restore and are not worth the cost of their restoration in financial terms.

Yes..... 60's and 70's Lotus definitely get the recognition they deserve for the pleasure that they bring to the vast army of enthusiasts.

We don't want to make the marque exclusive to a few well heeled individuals do we?

I could go on about the above and bore you all, but I think those few lines say it all.


Regards

[GrUmPyBoDgEr]

Returning to the original question; I think that those cars have for a long time had that recognition.
If the classic Car Magazines in GB want to up their monthly sales all they need to do is put a picture of an Elan on the front cover.
I think that Elan prices especially in the present economical climate are about right.
When they were new they were overpriced when compared to the Jaguar E-Type but you need to be loaded to buy an E-Type now; not so for an Elan, so things have evened themselves out a bit maybe?

Alan,
Get your post count up for a 3rd Gear & you could then set your Red Line at a less risky 7500 RPM

Cheers
John

[Spyder fan]

Alan,
Get your post count up for a 3rd Gear & you could then set your Red Line at a less risky 7500 RPM

Cheers
John

John,
I have been waiting all week for someone to notice the new signature quote..... trust a fellow zetec owner to be first! I like to think that a screaming Lotus Elan +2 on the public roads can only raise the profile of the marque to the benefit of all, and it certainly gets some recognition. BTW the crank is good for 8000 all day long.

Regards