Lotus Elan

Annual Insurance

PostPost by: stuartgb100 » Mon Mar 09, 2009 6:43 pm

It's that time of year again!
There's been a few changes since the last trawl through for competitive quotes, and seeing the advert in the Business section for Abbott, I thought I'd give them a go. Here's the results:

My +2S 130/5 is currently Sorned. I asked them for 2 quotes:

Quote:

?Elan+2 S 130.
We can do an Accidental Damage Fire & Theft policy whilst the vehicle is laid up and then convert this to a road use policy as and when it is required. Accidental damage could occur if you were maneuvering the car or dropped something on it in the garage.

The annual premium for this is ?63.80. If road cover is required at a later stage they charge you the pro-rata difference. Standard Classic Road Cover Approx ?82.00 for the year so there is not a big difference anyway. There is no return premium if you cancel a laid up policy.?

My Sprint is already heavily modified, and about to receive a very warm engine (close to 180bhp). I fully detailed all the mods (inc all-steel, bhp etc), with an agreed value of ?20k,

Quote:

?Quotations with proof of 5 yrs claim free driving record

3000 miles ?261.86
5000 miles ?334.47

Whilst these figures may yet be superseded by other quotes I do feel they offer very good value for money, all modifications are disclosed and they understand at the outset that the value of the car is proposed as ?20k so there should be no nasty shocks in store if a claim occurs.

Just for your information stand alone track day cover costs around ?75.00 to ?100 per event so at the very least you would be talking about ?300/?400 for track cover alone.?

?Roadside assistance starts a quarter mile from home. Additional premiums are:
?35.00 for < 3000 miles, ?45.00 for < 5000 miles.?


4 track days are included in the premium, and first option on salvage before scrapping
No photographs are required for the agreed value.
Insurance via Norwich Union.

What do you think?

Regards,
Stuart.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Tue Mar 10, 2009 11:17 pm

Something to check out Stuart. A chum of mine had his Escort Mexico semi-stripped and with an off road policy. He had the lights, bumpers, trim and loads of little bits and pieces off the car. They were all perfect new-old-stock parts, with a replacement value close to ?5k!! He had a break-in, and they took all the bits that were off the car, and the insurance company took the position that as they were separate from the car, they weren't covered. After lots of discussions (heated) about a car being off the road for restoration, they relented and said they would pay. He then submitted a replacement list and replacement price, and they baulked again, figuring that there was no way a few bits from an Escort could be worth that much! Again, after lots of argument and proof via eBay prices, they paid up.

So check that off-road includes parts belonging to but not fitted on the car (whilst under restoration) and that they will pay the market price for such parts. You know how much a mint set of bumpers, front and rear lights, all the chrome strips etc. cost to get hold of in good condition!

Mark
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PostPost by: stuartgb100 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 7:32 am

Mark,

That's a good point. I'll check it out.

I had thought that items 'off' the car (or purchased for the restoration) would be covered under the normal Contents policy for the household.
Though maybe not !

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Stuart.
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PostPost by: atthelimit » Wed Mar 11, 2009 8:26 am

Hi,

I can shed a bit of light on this subject being an insurance broker and Lotus enthusiast.

1) Most insurance policies do not cover parts whilst they are off the car. As someone?s friend found out it is a lot easier to steal a load of parts if they have all been taken off the car and laid out neatly on the garage floor for collection than it is to have to unbolt each bit. Parts already taken off represent a higher risk than someone stealing an off the road car which is probably not running at that point anyway.

2) Household insurance does NOT cover motor parts, accessories or cars, they are specifically excluded, otherwise a car in the garage would be classed as part of your general contents and that is not what a household policy is intended for. It would unbalance household premiums, general contents insured for ?35k and then add say ?20k for one single relatively easy to steal lump of metal/fibreglass!

3) It would appear that the person involved in the claim "assumed" something is covered and you should never assume anything with insurance, if you want something covered ask for it and see it in black and white to make sure it's what you want/need. I think in the case described the person was very luck to get the claim paid as it certainly seems it was not part of the policy, if he was a large or long standing client they may have done it as a gesture of goodwill. As for the cost of parts, boy do they add up, the only thing I can think of on that is that the value he had placed on the car might have been a tad low, if the parts stolen were ?5k and the car was insured for say ?10k it only leaves ?5k for all the big bits, body shell, engine gearbox, axles and wheels etc. May be he insured it at a low starting figure but forgot to increase the value as the restoration went on?

4) Parts can be included under some classic policies but not standard road policies. That said not all classic policies will include it so if that part of cover is very important to you make sure you find one that does, be warned though due to the increased risk the premiums may be more. It is also true that in my experience there is no one insurance that has it all, so if you find one that covers parts they might not do something else so in the end you have to shop around to find one that meets your needs the closest.




Hope this helps a bit

Kim
Abbot Insurance from the Vendors page.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Wed Mar 11, 2009 9:23 am

This grey area is a bit of worry, Kim. I guess there are a couple of issues here.

Firstly, if a car is off the road, there's a reasonable chance that it's being restored, or at least, fettled. And that means it will have some parts off the car. These aren't just 'stock' parts that would otherwise be sitting on a shelf, but bits that belong to, and are part of the insured vehicle.

Secondly, the replacement cost of the parts. We all know that an S1 steering wheel can be ?1000, a pair of rear lights for an S2/3 or Plus 2 / S4 ?400 plus, a pair of front sidelights for a Plus 2 much the same....and so it goes. The difference between the value of new old stock (or mint original) and repro or tatty original is vast.

I guess it's up to us to ensure that the details of the car are fully written down and accepted by the insurance company. I know with my off-road policy, with Footman James, all they wanted to know was the model, the registration number and the value, with no 3rd party authentication of my claim. That's fine for the beginning of a restoration when all the expensive 'bling' will probably have to be replaced or at least refurbished, but when you're in the final stages and putting all these lovely new bits together......

My mate's Mexico was a concourse winner some 5 years ago, and was insured for ?25k. If it had been an RS1600 or Twincam Escort in the same condition that would have been ?35k, and if it had been a famous car....lots and lots. They've gone the same way as Lotus Cortinas, and that has dragged the price of perfect bits up to ridiculous levels. A NOS Escort grille sold on eBay last moth for ?800......3 years ago they could be bought for ?50. Hence the replacement cost for his bits was very high...but it's no different to many of the Elan bits now.

I guess that the whole point of having a different category of insurance for classic cars is to give the owner some level of comfort that the company understands and provides a service for the situations identified above. If they don't then what's the point in having a different category? May as well just have standard fire and theft with the mainstream boys!

I?m going to read the small print in my Footman James policy now :shock:

Mark
Last edited by Elanintheforest on Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: stuartgb100 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:56 pm

Quote:

"I?m going to read the small print in my Footman James policy now

Mark"

We'll be waiting for your update sometime after the weekend, then !

I took a look at my old FJ policy and immediately concluded that the small print would benefit from a suitably qualified translator.
But then that's why they do it !

Regards,
Stuart.
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PostPost by: Elanintheforest » Wed Mar 11, 2009 5:22 pm

Maybe I was being a little hasty!!

Mark
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PostPost by: stuartgb100 » Wed Mar 11, 2009 6:58 pm

Mark,

I've asked Kim for clarification, in particular concerning the Sorned +2.
This is currently in secure storage, but this Summer will be returning to my garage.
I will then be looking to begin the strip-down and acquisition of 'new' parts.

At the moment, I'm concerned, because (I suspect, like most of us) space is an issue.
Depending on the particular item, if it's not immediately needed, it's either stored in the
garage, in the greenhouse, up in the loft, or under the bed (!).

If Kim is saying that ANY part, not physically ON the car is likely to not be covered, then .........

Or am I panicking for no reason ?

Regards,
Stuart.
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PostPost by: atthelimit » Thu Mar 12, 2009 9:04 am

Hi guys

I'm working on this one and will post a reply as soon as I have a better answer.

I have contacted a few of the classic insurers that we use to get their "official" position and will let you all know.

It's a bit of a Pandoras box this one.

It's a sad fact but most of the thefts from garages of expensive parts don't just happen randomly. These thefts ushually involve someone you know remotely or a friend who has told someone about this amazing restoration going on and how everything to be fitted is "brand new". It only takes one dishonest sole to overhear and the ball starts rolling.

Kim

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PostPost by: paddy » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:11 am

Elanintheforest wrote:I guess that the whole point of having a different category of insurance for classic cars is to give the owner some level of comfort that the company understands and provides a service for the situations identified above. If they don't then what's the point in having a different category? May as well just have standard fire and theft with the mainstream boys!


Ultimately everything comes down to risk. The more cover you have, the greater the risk, and the greater the premium. The key thing is to make sure that you and your insurer have a common view of what the level of cover is.

I think the idea that you'll automatically get better or cheaper cover from the specialist insurers is a bit simplistic. The risk => cost relationship is absolutely unavoidable. The advantage you have with the specialists is that they understand these specific risks a bit better - and therefore might be a little less conservative in their assumptions - but really I think they are offering you a bit of flexibility to tailor what is covered to your specific needs rather than an off-the-shelf and inflexible arrangement as you would get from the mainstream insurers. But each time you tailor the policy to cover more risk, then the price will most definitely go up. If you want to think of it this way, the specialists are really giving you the opportunity to get cover for what you want (ie the opportunity to pay more :) ) but on the flipside the assurance that they will take the most realistic and well-informed view possible as to the actual level of risk (so you don't pay over the odds for it).

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PostPost by: atthelimit » Fri Mar 13, 2009 6:32 pm

Hi

As promised I have found out the the "official" view from a number of insurers and it's not good news.

The general position can be summed up by the statement below issued by one insurer.

"Parts not fitted to a vehicle are not covered. As you?ll appreciate, it?s impossible in the event of a claim to quantify what may or may not have been stored either in new or second hand parts or indeed the condition of those parts. Therefore we only cover the vehicle as a whole entity."

To be fair we have found one company who will provide ?500 for parts cover and this is subject to the policy excess, normally ?100 making effective cover ?400. This would just about cover the cost of a set of rear lights as previously mentioned. However, the problem with this particular policy is that whilst it will give some cover for parts it is deficient in other areas of salvage buy back and choice of repairers. So whilst the car is undergoing restoration this might be ok but once the car is returned to road risks this policy might leave a bit to be desired. To be frank the cover of ?500 is really not adequate and we could not recommend it as such, but, it is something! It would only suit a car that was going to be off the road for the full 12 months and even then the cover is very limited.

A number of the classic insurers have suggested that they thought parts would be covered under a household insurance, but again after checking the wordings of a lot of insurers, motor vehicles and it parts or accesories are positively excluded from houshold cover. (I don't really think they believed the household policy would cover it but it gives them a bit of a get out)

There is no good solution here, we can only say be careful about who knows that the car is in bits, store as many parts around the house, in the attic and spare bedroom (wife permitting) don't bring parts into the garage until you are ready to fit them and keep your fingers crossed. Consider alarming the garage!

Sorry guys, it's not the answer you wanted to hear, but at least you know where you stand. In the course of talking to insurers we have promted a bit of a stir and one company who we deal with on a fairly large scale has said that it will look at the problem in detail to see if there is a way to offer suitable cover, this may or may not turn into anything but if they see an angle to attract more customers with enhanced cover (and premium no doubt) they may just go for it. If this happens we will of course let you know through the forum.

The important thing to remember is that whilst this can happen it is quite a rare occurance, devastating when it does, but the laws or probability are on your side. We have not yet had two jumbo jets crash on Wembley stadium on FA cup final day, but it could happen, would you be worried about not having insurance for such an event even if your team is in the final and you were going ..........?

Important Note
We cannot possibly check out all the classic car insurers concerned or indeed all the household insurers and so whilst we firmly believe that this information is correct it just may be possible there is one brave company willing to offer extensive parts cover, I don't think so but you never know.

P.S. We checked about 30 or so companies.

Kim
Abbot Insurance
See Vendors page.

P.P.S. If you have found anything helpful or informative please be so kind as to leave a positive comment on the vendors page. many thanks
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