Lotus Elan

strange noise that seems to come from rear left wheel

PostPost by: Craig Elliott » Wed May 31, 2023 4:42 pm

From the video, i can hear a 'tap tap' type noise that sounds like it gets faster as you accelerate. Have you:

- checked that you don't have a nail or screw stuck in the tyre or a stone embedded in the tread?
- checked that there's nothing catching on the lower wishbone where it bolts to the upright?

I've had a similar noise following wheel balancing where a stick on wheel weight was just catching on the outer end of the wishbone...
User avatar
Craig Elliott
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 331
Joined: 15 Sep 2003
Location: Lincolnshire, UK

PostPost by: rgh0 » Thu Jun 01, 2023 5:19 am

There is something definitely wrong and your mechanic should be able to diagnose it . We are just guessing

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 8897
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: Niklas777 » Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:04 am

Hi all,

I had the chance to discuss with Old English white yesterday evening who told me to check the screw that is on the triangle on the rear left side of the car.
This screw may be a little long and rub the inside of the rim. I've also noticed that the inside of the rims is indeed marked. This is an issue that he encountered in the past, and he had to reduce the length of this screw.

I've also noticed that the problem only appears at low speeds (e.g. under 70 km/h).
I think that once the suspensions 'settle' under the effect of speed, this problem no longer appears dur to the slight wheel camber

My garage advises me to change the rotoflexes to fix this issue, but these are not very old (2017) and don't show any cracks or tears. I asked him to check the tightness of the Lilstop screws on the rotoflex, but he told me that they don't loosen.

I'm going to get another opinion from another garage that is specialized in old English cars tomorrow morning and I'll keep you posted.

Good day to you all,
Niklas777
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 11 May 2023
Location: France

PostPost by: Niklas777 » Thu Jun 15, 2023 11:06 am

Craig Elliott wrote:From the video, i can hear a 'tap tap' type noise that sounds like it gets faster as you accelerate. Have you:

- checked that you don't have a nail or screw stuck in the tyre or a stone embedded in the tread?
- checked that there's nothing catching on the lower wishbone where it bolts to the upright?

I've had a similar noise following wheel balancing where a stick on wheel weight was just catching on the outer end of the wishbone...


Good catch, i'll have this checked tomorrow morning.
Niklas777
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 11 May 2023
Location: France

PostPost by: gjz30075 » Thu Jun 15, 2023 12:57 pm

Similar issue here recently. One wheel had its stick on wheel weight slightly too far 'outboard',
hence it would hit the suspension arm bolt, the one that is already at 'half head size'.
Greg Z
45/0243K Sprint
45/7286 S3 SE DHC
User avatar
gjz30075
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3534
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Roswell, Georgia, USA

PostPost by: Niklas777 » Thu Jun 15, 2023 1:09 pm

gjz30075 wrote:Similar issue here recently. One wheel had its stick on wheel weight slightly too far 'outboard',
hence it would hit the suspension arm bolt, the one that is already at 'half head size'.


Thanks for this Giz, i'll have this double checked tomorrow as well
Niklas777
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 11 May 2023
Location: France

PostPost by: Niklas777 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 1:48 pm

Following a visit to the garage :
-The nut on the wishbone doesn't seem to be rubbing on the rim
-the mechanic has adjusted the spacing of the handbrake pads so that they are further away from the disc
-The disc seems slightly warped

As a result, the noise is almost gone. I think we're on the right track, even if we still need a bit more adjustment.

I'm going to let him have the car for 1 week so that he can adjust everything properly when he drives it.

Note: on tight right-hand bends taken at "high" speed, I can hear friction coming from underneath the car.
Let's see if it's not the tyre rubbing the wheel arch a bit (the rims have minilites), or let's see if the dampers can be adjusted a bit harder.
I find that the car still rolls quite a lot even though the 4 dampers are new.

I also always have the feeling that the left rear wheel is braked a bit when I stop (e.g. at a red light).

To be continued...
Niklas777
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 11 May 2023
Location: France

PostPost by: Niklas777 » Fri Jun 16, 2023 2:20 pm

Question :

I've seen the following note on the TTR website concerning the minilites :
YOU MAY NEED TO MAKE SOME SMALL ADJUSTMENTS TO THE INNER WHEEL ARCHES TO INCORPORATE THESE WHEELS.

Do you know about such adjustments?

I'm just wondering if that would not be easier to refit the stock rims.
do the original rims have more space for the triangle nut than the Minilites?
Niklas777
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 11 May 2023
Location: France

PostPost by: Niklas777 » Mon Jun 19, 2023 9:08 pm

Just took some time to watch what's going on, it also gives me the chance to get to know this car a bit better.
And here are my thoughts, i see 2 issues:

1) The wheels on the car are 13-inch minilites, 5 inches apart.
The original rims (which I also have) are also 13", 4.5" offset, except if i am mistaken

The inside of the minilites fit far too close to the wishbone nuts.
The result is that the inside of the rims rubs quite deeply against the nut and/or the wishbone. This could explain the noise that can vary according to the speed and camber.

I am thinking about reinstalling the original wheels as i don't want to cut/sand the bolts and/or wishbone for more access

Image
Image


2) The handbrake pads seem to me to be much too close to the disc. Here's a photo without the handbrake on!
Is the adjustment done at the level of the centralizing clips?

Image
Niklas777
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 11 May 2023
Location: France

PostPost by: 2cams70 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:06 am

This is a very long thread but have you at any stage jacked the wheels off the ground and spun them by hand? I can’t see that check mentioned anywhere.
1970 Ford Escort Twin Cam
1972 Ford Escort GT1600 Twin Cam
1980 Ford Escort 2.0 Ghia
Peugeot 505 GTI Wagons (5spdx1) (Autox1)
2022 Ford Fiesta ST.
2cams70
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2103
Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Location: Australia

PostPost by: StressCraxx » Tue Jun 20, 2023 12:46 am

If the bolt or housing is contacting the wheel with that much clearance, I would be concerned about the integrity of the bearings or the fit of the bearings in the housing. Suggest carefully checking runout of the stub shaft/hub assembly as well, possibly a bent wheel?
There is no cure for Lotus, only treatment.
User avatar
StressCraxx
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1435
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, California

PostPost by: nmauduit » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:50 am

At some point I tried to fit alloy wheels to my stock '68 Fed s4se, and clearance has proven to be a severely limiting factor : in the end I only managed to fit reasonably Dunlop 4"1/2 (NOT the 5"1/2 fitting plus2s), with all the fettling I could do to accomodate 175x60 13 (Yokohama for track days). Same tires dimension would fit just fine on the original Lotus steel KO rims.

Regarding the lower rear suspension frame, even with new bearings precisely adjusted etc., the clearance is rather small (only a couple mm), and with stick tires the deformations may cause rubbing in case of insufficient clearance or too much play in the suspension under load.

If you are set to keep alloy wheels (I did not want to overstress my stock rims with sticky compound on the track) then you may want to overhaul your rear suspension, and if required possibly increase clearance by *slightly* machining the offending angle of the two rear minilitesr (std disclaimer: have the machine shop check carefully metal thickness prior machining, and use modified wheels only under complete understanding of risks and consequences on the track or elsewhere). Good luck !

keep it on the road...
S4SE 36/8198
User avatar
nmauduit
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2057
Joined: 02 Sep 2013
Location: France

PostPost by: Niklas777 » Tue Jun 20, 2023 8:56 am

nmauduit wrote:At some point I tried to fit alloy wheels to my stock '68 Fed s4se, and clearance has proven to be a severely limiting factor : in the end I only managed to fit reasonably Dunlop 4"1/2 (NOT the 5"1/2 fitting plus2s), with all the fettling I could do to accomodate 175x60 13 (Yokohama for track days). Same tires dimension would fit just fine on the original Lotus steel KO rims.

Regarding the lower rear suspension frame, even with new bearings precisely adjusted etc., the clearance is rather small (only a couple mm), and with stick tires the deformations may cause rubbing in case of insufficient clearance or too much play in the suspension under load.

If you are set to keep alloy wheels (I did not want to overstress my stock rims with sticky compound on the track) then you may want to overhaul your rear suspension, and if required possibly increase clearance by *slightly* machining the offending angle of the two rear minilitesr (std disclaimer: have the machine shop check carefully metal thickness prior machining, and use modified wheels only under complete understanding of risks and consequences on the track or elsewhere). Good luck !

Merci!

I'm thinking of putting the original rims back on if they are not too warped.
I am often in favor of standard configuration, so that would be 145x13 tires and original rims. I don't really want to start touching the wishbone and/or the bolt
+ i think the standard rims look cool.
If that solves the issue, i could have minilites for sell soon...




keep it on the road...
Niklas777
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 11 May 2023
Location: France

PostPost by: 512BB » Wed Jun 21, 2023 9:21 am

'I've seen the following note on the TTR website concerning the minilites :
YOU MAY NEED TO MAKE SOME SMALL ADJUSTMENTS TO THE INNER WHEEL ARCHES TO INCORPORATE THESE WHEELS'

If anyone suggests altering the bodywork on ANY Lotus so that their part will then fit, trust me, you are dealing with the wrong company and buying the wrong parts.

'I am thinking about reinstalling the original wheels as i don't want to cut/sand the bolts and/or wishbone for more access'

That is the best suggestion you have made. If you do not have tyres fitted to those rims at the moment, make sure you get them checked for trueness, cracks, other defects, enlarged locating holes, before having new tyres fitted. ONLY fit the original size tyres.

'The handbrake pads seem to me to be much too close to the disc'

There is only supposed to be a few thou of an inch clearance, 3 I think, when the handbrake is released, between each pad and the disc, but if your rear brake caliper was all in good order, it would not matter if there was 0.020" clearance, the handbrake would work perfectly well. Nobody actually measures with feeler gauges, the clearance, I certainly do not and never have done, and the handbrakes work as intended on all my cars. You just have to ensure that there is SOME clearance between the friction material and the disc. Some people put a spring on the rod with the eye, to hold off the pads, but there was never one fitted from the factory. I have cars fitted with a spring and without, but it makes no difference if everything is working properly.

'Is the adjustment done at the level of the centralizing clips?

No, if you look at your picture showing the handbrake pads, the adjustment is carried out at the end of the rod with the eye, where there is a serated nut, and there should be a clip type thing that stops the nut from turning of its own accord.

From the pictures you have posted Niklas, your rear calipers, rear suspension, bushes, bearings etc. look very tired to me, and if that was my car, I would rebuild the whole lot. That would be the only way that I would have confidence in the rear of the car.

All the best,

Leslie
512BB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1147
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK

PostPost by: Niklas777 » Wed Jun 21, 2023 9:52 am

512BB wrote:'I've seen the following note on the TTR website concerning the minilites :
YOU MAY NEED TO MAKE SOME SMALL ADJUSTMENTS TO THE INNER WHEEL ARCHES TO INCORPORATE THESE WHEELS'

If anyone suggests altering the bodywork on ANY Lotus so that their part will then fit, trust me, you are dealing with the wrong company and buying the wrong parts.

'I am thinking about reinstalling the original wheels as i don't want to cut/sand the bolts and/or wishbone for more access'

That is the best suggestion you have made. If you do not have tyres fitted to those rims at the moment, make sure you get them checked for trueness, cracks, other defects, enlarged locating holes, before having new tyres fitted. ONLY fit the original size tyres.

'The handbrake pads seem to me to be much too close to the disc'

There is only supposed to be a few thou of an inch clearance, 3 I think, when the handbrake is released, between each pad and the disc, but if your rear brake caliper was all in good order, it would not matter if there was 0.020" clearance, the handbrake would work perfectly well. Nobody actually measures with feeler gauges, the clearance, I certainly do not and never have done, and the handbrakes work as intended on all my cars. You just have to ensure that there is SOME clearance between the friction material and the disc. Some people put a spring on the rod with the eye, to hold off the pads, but there was never one fitted from the factory. I have cars fitted with a spring and without, but it makes no difference if everything is working properly.

'Is the adjustment done at the level of the centralizing clips?

No, if you look at your picture showing the handbrake pads, the adjustment is carried out at the end of the rod with the eye, where there is a serated nut, and there should be a clip type thing that stops the nut from turning of its own accord.

From the pictures you have posted Niklas, your rear calipers, rear suspension, bushes, bearings etc. look very tired to me, and if that was my car, I would rebuild the whole lot. That would be the only way that I would have confidence in the rear of the car.

All the best,

Leslie


Thanks Leslie,

All of this makes sense, and thanks again for sharing those elements.
I was a bit surprised though about the fact that calipers, suspension, bushes, bearings etc need to be replaced. What drives you to say this? (again, i'm discovering this car, so please forgive the basic question here)
The shock absorbers, bearings were changed recently so i'm just wondering why those parts shall be changed now.

Cheers,
Niklas
Niklas777
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 11 May 2023
Location: France
PreviousNext

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests