Lotus Elan

Tyres

PostPost by: dougal cawley » Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:58 pm

Hi Team

Have i been on here and toild you that Pirelli have made a batch of the 165VR13 CN36 Cinturato?

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... /elan.html

Im only getting good reports about them. (and they look cool)

165x13 SET of 4.jpg and
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PostPost by: Steve Brooks » Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:39 am

Thanks for the info,keep up the good work.
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PostPost by: Roland » Tue May 09, 2023 12:36 pm

Doug,

I recall you indicated some time ago Pirelli may make a 155 HR13 Cinturato, any update on the liklihood of this happening?

Regards

Roland
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PostPost by: seniorchristo » Tue May 09, 2023 1:06 pm

Douglas

On the Longstone website, under the Michelin XAS FF information section, it says this tire is tubeless. I know this has been thrashed around before but why would Michelin say tubeless if a tube is not necessary when using a proper wheel (Minilite)? I like the tires but the tube issue is enough to discourage me from making the purchase.

Thanks
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Tue May 09, 2023 3:08 pm

seniorchristo wrote:Douglas

On the Longstone website, under the Michelin XAS FF information section, it says this tire is tubeless. I know this has been thrashed around before but why would Michelin say tubeless if a tube is not necessary when using a proper wheel (Minilite)? I like the tires but the tube issue is enough to discourage me from making the purchase.

Thanks
Chris


Hmm! it should say that the 13" Michelin XAS FF tyres are tubeless tyres. Ie they do not need an innertube. However as these are a full profile tyre then you can fit an innertube if you want to.

All 80%, 75% and 70% tyres can fit an innertube if you want, or if your wheel is not designed to be run without an innertube.

Some tyres do not have their carcass sealed, and these tyres will be labeled a "tube type" and they must be fitted with an innertube regardless of what wheel they are fitted on.

The Michelin XAS range of tyres was historically a tube type tyre as they came out in 1965. However today the XAS range is predomintly tubeless

there is more detail about weather you want an inner tube or not on here

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/classi ... tubes.html

my web site has just today gone wrong. However it should be firing on all cylinders again tomorrow. i will then just check that all the XAS tyre pages are correct.

the pirelli that is coming soon will be tubeless, but you will be able to fit a tube if you want to.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/catalo ... gory/6835/
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PostPost by: USA64 » Tue May 09, 2023 3:19 pm

As this keeps coming up, correct me if I am wrong.
My S4 has tubeless 155-80 13' tires standard.
There is no safety ridge as it had not been invented at that time.
An inner-tube would do nothing to hold the tire when flat.
We are supposed to be having fun, are we not?
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Tue May 09, 2023 4:05 pm

USA64 wrote:As this keeps coming up, correct me if I am wrong.
My S4 has tubeless 155-80 13' tires standard.
There is no safety ridge as it had not been invented at that time.
An inner-tube would do nothing to hold the tire when flat.


So S4 is 1968?

I think these 2 fitment guides quite plainly state that you should fit an innertube.

this Michelin fitment guide says "This wheel, if fitted by the manufacturer, is suitable for tubeless radial tyres" which is applicable to the black triangle, which Lotus do not have next to them.

1974 Michelin Lotus Fitments.jpg and


This Dunlop fitment guide has 2 columns with dots in. the columns are tubed and tubeless. the none +2 Elan from 66-73 is clearly tubed.

1978 Dunlop Lotus Fitments.jpg and


I would also say if you do not have the safety hump on your wheel then fit an innertube.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/tyres/ ... d-v13.html

tubeless well based wheel rim profile.jpg and
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PostPost by: Fred Talmadge » Tue May 09, 2023 6:51 pm

I've used tubeless tires with tubes on cars with wire wheels. Never experienced any problems.
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PostPost by: USA64 » Tue May 09, 2023 10:51 pm

[quoteI would also say if you do not have the safety hump on your wheel then fit an innertube.][/quote]

I would ask again: what is the purpose of the innertube? I ran it daily for years with no problems; the seal was good. What would an innertube do when it held no air?
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PostPost by: mbell » Tue May 09, 2023 11:43 pm

USA64 wrote:What would an innertube do when it held no air?


If there is no safety hump on wheels the tire is more easily knocked of the rim, leading to sudden deflation. If there is a tube the tire can be knocked off the rim but won't suddenly deflate.

So whether you need tubes is based on combination of the tire and the wheel being used.
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PostPost by: seniorchristo » Wed May 10, 2023 1:12 am

Douglas

Thanks for clearing up the tube/tubeless controversy. One last question. What would be the projected mileage expected for 155X13 XAS FF tires on an Elan?

Thanks
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PostPost by: h20hamelan » Wed May 10, 2023 3:48 am

Does anyone want to comment about Michelin tyres cracking.
I dont find I get 10 years out of my 16ply truck tyres, but I do out of most of the Michelin sedan tyres.
Maybe doesnt help, but in might in regards to soft sticky tyres. Is that Michelin compound not also used on Jaguar’s etc?
I thought the original Dunlop Pirelli etc were soft and sticky for a reason. Again, compare to most tyres these days are for 13” Hyundai @ 3,000lbs.
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PostPost by: Roland » Wed May 10, 2023 11:05 am

I have run two air cooled Porsches on Michelin tyres for about 12 years now. I got fed up with Pirelli's tramlining and the feel on turn in was very poor. The Michelins are just superb and I have never had a problem with cracking, I do very low miles though. The newer tyre versions they bring out just get better as well, Pilot Sport 4S's I am using on both cars are fantastic tyres. Considering a set of these is approx £600 you can't complain really.

I have run the Elan on Michelin XAS's, they are very good but mine wore fast. The price is however crazy which is why I hope the Pirelli arrives soon.

Regards

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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Wed May 10, 2023 1:23 pm

Fred Talmadge wrote:I've used tubeless tires with tubes on cars with wire wheels. Never experienced any problems.


Yes wire wheels need inner tubes.

https://youtu.be/Gce9-VU_X_s

I know that there are manufacturers out there who make wire wheels that say they are tubeless. but we have had too many failures to trust them. In my mind just sticking some silicone in the spoke heads is not an engineering solution it is a bodge.

Borrani wouldnt do it.

https://www.borrani.com/inner-tubes.html

yes you can fit inner tubes in tubeless tyres as long as it is a tall profile tyre

inner tubes in tubeless tyres.JPG and


Michelin run the same policy.
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PostPost by: dougal cawley » Wed May 10, 2023 1:48 pm

Roland wrote:I have run two air cooled Porsches on Michelin tyres for about 12 years now. I got fed up with Pirelli's tramlining and the feel on turn in was very poor.


Can i bet my underpants that your tramlining of your aircooled Porsche was because you were fitting either 185/70 or 195/65R15 Pirelli P6000

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirell ... p6000.html

The P6000 is a tyre designed to work in conjunction with a different chassis set up to the majority of air cooled Porsche.

what year was your car? and what model?

my guess is it should have been fitted with a CN36.

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/pirell ... -cn36.html

Roland wrote:The Michelins are just superb and I have never had a problem with cracking, I do very low miles though. The newer tyre versions they bring out just get better as well, Pilot Sport 4S's I am using on both cars are fantastic tyres. Considering a set of these is approx £600 you can't complain really.


What sizes are you fitting?

Roland wrote:I have run the Elan on Michelin XAS's, they are very good but mine wore fast. The price is however crazy which is why I hope the Pirelli arrives soon.

Regards

Roland


Yep the Pirelli price is pretty ace

https://www.longstonetyres.co.uk/catalo ... gory/6439/

And the XAS are also good.
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