Lotus Elan

Rear Hub Won't Turn

PostPost by: Craven » Tue May 26, 2020 10:50 am

It’s the inner bearing, spider side that is wider. It also has an extended inner race beyond that outer case/race, if fitted the wrong way round this extended inner will set the drive shaft back in the housing. Could be your problem.
Wide bearing fitted to issue 18 upright, issue 16 two same size narrow bearings.
Last edited by Craven on Tue May 26, 2020 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue May 26, 2020 11:15 am

Tmac897 wrote:
rgh0 wrote:I am sure the hub can be removed with the right puller and a little heat and a lot of patience :lol: . The problem may be that the taper has been permanently distorted on the hub. The end of the axle appears parallel with the end of the hub when it should be some what below. I suspect with the hot hub the 100 ft lbs pulled it up until the washer bottomed on the end of the shaft as well as the hub. I don't have the manual in front of me but I think the cold tightening toque specified for the hub nut is around 180 or 200 ft-lb

cheers
Rohan


There is actually about .25" between the end of the axle and the end of the hub. Tried to get the best pic I could, but it was a tough angle with the lighting in the garage. Also, my workshop manual said 100#.

Thanks,
Toy



A 1/4 inch gap is about normal so the hub does not appear to be on to far and removal should be not that difficult. So if you have an issue 16 casting with two 6206 bearings and the correct axle shaft the shaft should be in the right position versus the bearing carrier and the hub should not be hitting anything, so why its hard to turn is not clear to me?? I am not sure if the dirt shield was normal on the Issue 16 casting ? but if it was and its missing then the whole assembly could have moved in to much by about 40 thou but that should not give you a problem with hub to the carrier / circlip / bearing outer race interference

Yes you're correct 100- 110 ft-lbs is the manual specification. My visual memory of the torque page was confusing it with the octagonal wheel nut on the line below :oops: always RTFM

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: Tmac897 » Tue May 26, 2020 11:50 am

I do have an Issue 16 carrier, but perhaps a different axle? I did have to replace the axle in that carrier. Previous owner had spun the axle, replaced the bearing, and then welded the axle to repair it, rendering it unusable as I couldn’t find a machine shop capable of turning it properly to remove the raised weld. I just bought a used axle from Ken at DBE.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue May 26, 2020 12:16 pm

The circlip slot on the issue 18 axle is positioned further outboard to accommodate the wider inner bearing race. if the narrower 6206 bearing for the Issue 16 axle has been mounted on the issue 18 axle that would potentially allow the axle to move further inwards.

Some new axles come with slots machined for both Issue 18 wide inner bearing and issue 16 narrow inner bearing but if you got a second hand axle if may have been the wrong type ?

The 2 types of rear hubs are a bit of a minefield of potential problems

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue May 26, 2020 12:28 pm

I think your car should have 2 narrow bearings.
I also think you have the later drive shaft made for 1 narrow bearing and 1 wide inside bearing.
To fit a later drive shaft to early Chapman Housing you should:
1. Fit dust shield.
2. Fit narrow bearing.
3. Fit spacer to shim between bearing and circlip groove.
I think the workshop has made a mistake and fitted the spacer first and not last.
Alan
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PostPost by: Craven » Tue May 26, 2020 12:50 pm

Now it’s been established you have issue 16 carriers, forget different width bearings as the machined rebate is not deep enough to accept a later wide bearing.
Pic shows the two axles associated with the modification, on the right is an axle fitted in the issue 16 carrier.
Note the position of the circlip groove on the axle on the left to accommodate the wider bearing used in the issue 18 carriers, this later axle can be used with issue 16 carrier by fitting an earlier narrower bearing and placing a spacer between the bearing and the circlip.
Rohan, a bit of a minefield for you as well it seems.
P1020678.jpg and
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Tue May 26, 2020 2:02 pm

Craven wrote:Now it’s been established you have issue 16 carriers, forget different width bearings as the machined rebate is not deep enough to accept a later wide bearing.
Pic shows the two axles associated with the modification, on the right is an axle fitted in the issue 16 carrier.
Note the position of the circlip groove on the axle on the left to accommodate the wider bearing used in the issue 18 carriers, this later axle can be used with issue 16 carrier by fitting an earlier narrower bearing and placing a spacer between the bearing and the circlip.
Rohan, a bit of a minefield for you as well it seems.
P1020678.jpg


Not sure what you mean......the only bit I am not sure of is did the issue 16 carriers come with the dirt shield on the inside or not ? is there something else i have missed ?

Clearly fitting an issue 18 only axle i.e. one with only the issue 18 groove not one with both issue 18 and 16 grooves, in an issue 16 hub with an issue 16 6206 bearing requires a spacer to properly locate the bearing, if this is not fitted then the bearing location is not fixed and the shaft can float by the width of the required spacer. Now why would all that not be clearly to everyone ?? and to ask a further rhetorical question, why did Lotus not detail the dimensions in the workshop manual so the differences could be clearly understood 50 years later :lol:

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Rohan
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PostPost by: Craven » Tue May 26, 2020 3:32 pm

Dust shield fitted only with the later wide bearing axle, this axle has a further machined shoulder past the bearing inner location stop. Therefore inclusion or not will not affect the positional location of the axle within the carrier. Dust shield inside diameter is larger than the bearing ID.
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue May 26, 2020 4:03 pm

Spot on Craven.
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PostPost by: Tmac897 » Tue May 26, 2020 6:24 pm

Looks like I might have the Issue 16 carrier and the newer axle. I have the hub off now. Not too bad, just some heat and a few turns on the puller.

I have the circlips off now, and trying to get the axle out again. Will update when I’m there.
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PostPost by: Tmac897 » Tue May 26, 2020 7:33 pm

OK we’re almost there. The new axle, which is for an Issue 18 carrier, has a little different spider. It has a lower shoulder than the older axle. Currently the bearing is about .375” away from the shoulder, and I believe it should be pressed all the way onto that shoulder. That will push the outer end of the axle further out of the outer bearing and the carrier, which is what I need.

Now there needs to be a 3/16” spacer between the inner race and the inner circlip. Question is, what is that spacer? There is no part listed in the books, so it has to be something made up?

Thanks for all the help so far. Any ideas about fashioning this spacer?
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PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue May 26, 2020 8:09 pm

I would remove the bearing and get a second Circlip groove turned in the correct place for narrow bearing.
When the new bearing is pressed on shaft put pressure only on small dia of bearing.
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PostPost by: ncm » Tue May 26, 2020 8:40 pm

This is an example of the spacer that you will require..

https://www.tonythompsonracing.co.uk/pa ... hubshafts/
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PostPost by: MarkDa » Tue May 26, 2020 9:35 pm

Really pleased that everything came apart fairly readily and that you now know what's needed :D
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PostPost by: Tmac897 » Tue May 26, 2020 9:39 pm

MarkDa wrote:Really pleased that everything came apart fairly readily and that you now know what's needed :D


So am I! I thought the worst on this one. Thanks everyone for your help!!
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