Lotus Elan

Blasted handbrake mechanism!

PostPost by: vincereynard » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:48 pm

If the shaft was too far out the bigger gap would be on the outside of the caliper.
Therefore if it needs shims, the gap is smaller on the outside and it's not a driveshaft problem.

I think! Or is it the other way round? :)

I suspect it is intrinsic in the design. A number of parts, all of various tolerance, had to fit together exactly to give even gaps. Probably few did when new.

Glad it is now working OK.
vincereynard
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1230
Joined: 12 Jan 2015
Location: amersham

PostPost by: Grizzly » Tue Apr 14, 2020 1:39 pm

vincereynard wrote:If the shaft was too far out the bigger gap would be on the outside of the caliper.
Therefore if it needs shims, the gap is smaller on the outside and it's not a driveshaft problem.

.

Just to make it clear what i was referring too.....

Not done that much looking into it but the original bearings are not sealed they need dust covers, so if you don't refit the dust covers on both outer faces when you fit new wheel bearings it's quite hard to get the hub in the correct place (obviously the disk is out too) so depending how you pressed the hubs/bearings in you end up with a disk to caliper discrepancy of the thickness of that dust cover. It's quite common as the new bearings are sealed units so most people bin them.


Library picture from google so hope the op doesn't mind me using it as an example.
Bearing2.jpg and
Chris
User avatar
Grizzly
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1978
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Location: Cheshire/UK

PostPost by: oldelanman » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:03 pm

alan.barker wrote: If when you replaced the Bearings you have fitted the big round Dust Sheild on inside Bearing and Circlip. + when you pressed the Bearing onto the Shaft you fitted the inside small Dia Circlip that stops it moving along the shaft it is in the correct position.


It is possible to fit the inner bearing the wrong way round with the offset inner race facing inboard instead of outboard, it will still all go together OK and the circlips will fit but the driveshaft and disc will be displaced around 3mm inboard.
Roger
S4 DHC
oldelanman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1684
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Location: Dorset UK

PostPost by: JonB » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:13 pm

Cough, cough...

viewtopic.php?f=42&t=40997&start=75

This is how I fitted mine (that is, correctly), but still the disc was offset. Not sure how good it was before.
User avatar
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2113
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Apr 14, 2020 2:19 pm

Jon you fitted it correctly.
The off set on the bearing is towards the centre of the Chapman Strut not to the outside. You also need to trim flush the seal with a Stanley Knife to allow the big Washer/Dust Seal to fit easily.
All Bearings from the start have Seals that's why their ref n° has RS (rubber seal).
Have a look at the Brian Buckland Book :wink:
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2419
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: Grizzly » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:27 pm

When you tapped in the outer bearing did you hold the Chapman strut or the output shaft to stop it moving? if it was tight on the shaft could you have moved the inner bearing against the circlip?

I thought thats more or less what i did, i fitted my inner and put the clip in place i didn't go back and check it after i tapped the outer in........ so my guess was i had then pushed the inner into the space left by the dust cover because it moved a dam sight easier in the alloy casting than it did on the shaft.

BTW i fixed mine by removing the hub and pressed the whole assembly together (output shaft from the inner end against the outer bearing) how i should have done it in the first place :roll:
Chris
User avatar
Grizzly
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1978
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Location: Cheshire/UK

PostPost by: alan.barker » Tue Apr 14, 2020 3:58 pm

For me,
a.the first Bearing you fit is the Outer Bearing only into the warmed up Chapman Strut + Circlip.

b.Then you put the Large Round Dirt Shield on the Drive Shaft using a Press push on the Inner Dia only of the
Bearing Race + fit small Circlip.
c. Warm up inner part of Chapman Strut so the Drive Shaft and Bearing Assembly will slide in nicely + fit big Circlip
that holds Large Round Dirt Shield in place.
Info: because the Outer Bearing is fitted first in Chapman Strut it will centralise Drive Shaft as assembling.
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2419
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: Grizzly » Tue Apr 14, 2020 4:19 pm

I think the key is using a press...... don't think i would tap them in again.
Chris
User avatar
Grizzly
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1978
Joined: 13 Jun 2010
Location: Cheshire/UK

PostPost by: vincereynard » Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:41 pm

Grizzly wrote:I think the key is using a press...... don't think i would tap them in again.


+1 for that. Even though I made up a drift with an old bearing I would still be reluctant to not use a press.
vincereynard
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1230
Joined: 12 Jan 2015
Location: amersham

PostPost by: MarkDa » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:52 pm

I don't recall any of them being desperately tight to insert.
Removal was a bit awkward with a lot of bearing cement.
Maybe I should have used some myself on assembly?

I'll pay attention when I do it soon.
MarkDa
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1197
Joined: 15 Apr 2017
Location: Stroud

PostPost by: JonB » Wed Apr 15, 2020 7:23 am

Yeah, I agree that tapping is sub optimal. I had a bugger of a time getting the first bearing on (the inner, facing the differential). As to pressing the outer, I hadn't removed the carrier so a moot point. I assembled it with bearing seating compound, some Loctite product. Can't recall if I put it in after the shaft was in place or not. Probably not.. then I could (very gently) drift the shaft in.
User avatar
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2113
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: 512BB » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:21 am

The key to fitting and removing bearings from aluminium housings, ie hubs and diff casing, is heat, and a lot of it. Just warming the housings wont cut in, terms of expansion.

So for disassembly, I heat the housings with a butane blow torch, just running it round nice and evenly until HOT. Not spit on it and it sizzles hot though, and then tap out the bearing. You are just removing metal from the housing if you do not do that.

Re fitting the large bearing to the stub axle, similar approach. Leave the axle in the fridge for an hour. Warm up the inner race of the bearing with a heat gun, not enough to melt the grease, and press it onto the axle. Makes such a difference to the ease of the job. It should be noted that if you can fit the bearing onto the axle with little pressure, your axle has more than likely had it, and the axle will spin in the bearing, not good.

For refitting new bearings to aluminium housings, exactly the same. Heat the housing up to HOT. Cool the bearing in the fridge and press away. Not a difficult job. Did the same on a BMW M3 recently, and those bearings are 2 1/2" wide, massive. Steel carrier arms, but does not matter. Heated with the blow torch. out it popped. Same for assembly, heat carrier, bearings in fridge, Bob's your Auntie.

HEAT is a wonderful thing, and its one of my favorite films :D

Not sure what this post has to do with handbrakes, but hey, its Christmas.

Leslie
512BB
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 892
Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Location: Cambridgeshire, UK

PostPost by: JonB » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:17 am

Hi Leslie

If you read my account of the bearing fitting on the other linked to thread, you'll see that I did apply heat to the bearing, and even had the drive shaft in the freezer overnight. Neither helped get the inner bearing all the way down to the end of the shaft, and I had to drift it as I have no press.. As to the carrier, well, it was not a tight fit, so no heat needed there. I put the bearing in with seating compound. Two tears later and all is good.

The bearing conversation arose from the observation I made about the caliper being off centre WRT the brake disk.

Cheers
JonB
User avatar
JonB
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2113
Joined: 14 Nov 2017
Location: South Coast, UK

PostPost by: alan.barker » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:27 am

[quote="JonB"

"Two tears later and all is good."

Sorry i couldn't resist, not tooooo many TEARS i hope :wink:
Was it really 2 Years ago, doesn't time fly when you tinker on a Lotus :mrgreen:
Alan
Alan.b Brittany 1972 elan sprint fhc Lagoon Blue 0460E
alan.barker
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2419
Joined: 06 Dec 2008
Location: BRITTANY FRANCE

PostPost by: Foxie » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:32 pm

512BB wrote:The key to fitting and removing bearings from aluminium housings, ie hubs and diff casing, is heat, and a lot of it. Just warming the housings wont cut in, terms of expansion.

So for disassembly, I heat the housings with a butane blow torch, just running it round nice and evenly until HOT. Not spit on it and it sizzles hot though, and then tap out the bearing. You are just removing metal from the housing if you do not do that.

Re fitting the large bearing to the stub axle, similar approach. Leave the axle in the fridge for an hour. Warm up the inner race of the bearing with a heat gun, not enough to melt the grease, and press it onto the axle. Makes such a difference to the ease of the job. It should be noted that if you can fit the bearing onto the axle with little pressure, your axle has more than likely had it, and the axle will spin in the bearing, not good.

For refitting new bearings to aluminium housings, exactly the same. Heat the housing up to HOT. Cool the bearing in the fridge and press away. Not a difficult job. Did the same on a BMW M3 recently, and those bearings are 2 1/2" wide, massive. Steel carrier arms, but does not matter. Heated with the blow torch. out it popped. Same for assembly, heat carrier, bearings in fridge, Bob's your Auntie.

Leslie


Agreed 100% !

Casings need a butane torch until spit sizzles !

Cool bearings in a tub of frozen peas in the freezer

Heat bearings on the cooker in a small tin of engine oil, again, until spit sizzles !

This gives even heating and avoids burning seals and grease. Bend up a "U" shaped bit of wire with the ends bent out to lift out the bearing safely.

:)
68 Elan +2, 70 Elan +2s
User avatar
Foxie
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1004
Joined: 20 Sep 2003
Location: Wexford, Ireland
PreviousNext

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests