Lotus Elan

How many turns does a trunnion need to be screwed on?

PostPost by: JonB » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:11 pm

You can get the rear hubs off, using a spacer under the spinner and a mallet. Plus some heat, of course! It was hard work, and the spinner's dimple was damaged, but it came off in the end.

I had to fit a new outer driveshaft, too. Can't remember why, might have been thread damage..

[edit: no, it was the groove that the outer bearing had worn in the shaft, rendering it useless.]
Last edited by JonB on Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: pauljones » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:16 pm

BBB,
Nothing wrong with a bit of nauntical input. Cant wait till 28th when our yacht racing season starts.

Anyway, i recal a long time back it being mentioned that different spinners, 3 eared and federal single bolt, had different pitches/angles. This was in response to a post i may about one wheel always coming loose. I swaped to a spare set of fed bolts and not had same issue, i used same inserts.
Just wondered why you needed thicker inserts.
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PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:42 pm

The main details about my lock rings are in a thread titled Minilites, I don?t want to repeat it all here, but basically the spinners bottom out on thread before they secure the wheel tightly. Just putting a spinner on without a wheel and it goes on approx 10 turns. Put a wheel and lock ring on and the spinner still goes on 10 turns, so it?s not tight on the wheel. Looking at pictures of wheels and lock rings in various threads on here and it?s obvious there are different thicknesses of lock ring about, but I can?t get any thick enough.
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PostPost by: pauljones » Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:02 pm

Understood.
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PostPost by: The Veg » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:02 pm

So back to the orignal topic, does this look OK? Both seals in the picture are new and both are pointing the same direction. This is as far as the trunnion would go and still turn 180 deg., but the seal does introduce a bit of resistance despite the amount of grease to which it has been exposed.
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1969/70 Elan Plus 2 (not S) 50/2036
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PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:43 pm

Looks fine although the picture appears upside down.
Did you count the turns to get it screwed on that far, mine went on 15 turns and I measured the distance from the bottom of the trunnion to the top of the machined section on the upright to ensure both sides were the same, they were. If you can still turn it another half turn then that should be ok and will not bind or limit full lock.
The trunnions should be lubricated with ep90 oil rather than grease, is that grease just on the seal or is it right through the trunnion.
Make sure the bushes and tube through the trunnion are well greased, I?ve used a black moly based grease which was fine and had not dried out after over 25 years
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PostPost by: The Veg » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:42 am

It's upside down because of the angle at which I held the phone, and the way the upright was sitting on the bench.
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PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:32 am

Tell me about picture orientation!
I?ve had all sorts of problems turning them around on this site. When we go away my wife takes loads of photos on her phone and they get downloaded to our network drive at home and almost every one is upside down.
Anyway, makes no difference to the important things, the upright looks fine to me, it?s a bit wierd how the seal looks like it?s fitted the wrong way round, but mine look just the same. I did wonder if the trunnion was one turn too far up the thread, and deforming the seal, but decided it was fine.
The only reason I had to change mine is that they perished and split, they had been on the car around 30 years but it has been sat in the garage all that time and had never moved. The anti roll bar bushes don?t look so good, but the rest of the rubber parts have all looked fine, but I did fit cv joints instead of donuts and removed the diff to fit the brace and all the diff rubber bushes were fine and didn?t need replacing.
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PostPost by: The Veg » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:18 pm

My old seals weren't quite perished yet, but seemed slightly hardened so I figured I'd renew them while the rest of the suspension was apart as a preventive measure. And the old ones weren't deformed, so whoever installed them didn't screw the trunnions on all the way. But most all the rubber in the suspension was perished, so I've been at work at that. Most of it is going back together this weekend.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:46 pm

Bigbaldybloke wrote:Looks fine although the picture appears upside down.
..................
The trunnions should be lubricated with ep90 oil rather than grease, is that grease just on the seal or is it right through the trunnion................


Mmmmmmmmmmm not again :lol: . Oil may have been recommended by Triumph originally and that recommendation was blindly copied by Lotus but neither of them clearly gave it much thought

Grease is the superior lubricant for trunnion. Oil works but is inferior due to it greater likelihood of being contaminated with water.

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PostPost by: vstibbard » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:45 am

Far be it for me to say, however I've been pulling a part and rebuilding Elan's and before that friends spitfires, other than the picture is upside down, you have fitted the rubber trunnion seals upside down, the wider end sits over the top of the brass trunnion, stopping ingress of water and grit, narrow end butts to the top of threaded section of forged upright.

I'd suggest you check on a triumph suppliers parts diagrams, some are very detailed.

I've always used heavy gear oil in trunnion, if filled fully and checked at service intervals I've never seen the oil come out white or full of grit etc.

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PostPost by: The Veg » Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:34 am

V,
I fitted the seal as you describe. What you are seeing is the deformation caused by screwing the trunnion on as far as possible while still allowing 180 deg. of motion.
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PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:37 pm

I?m with the Veg, my seals are fitted the right way up, but once compressed against the upright they look like they could be the wrong way round, that?s what made me start this thread in the first place. Have we got the trunnions on one turn too far? If I undo it one turn, the seal looks like it does on the bench.
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PostPost by: JonB » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:40 am

Opinion, but I reckon they should deform in order to form a good seal (insofar as it is possible given such a poor design). Mine are tight and the trunnions screwed on as recommended. However, if you look closely at this picture of my assembled NS front suspension, you can see that the seal still looks "right way up"; that is, tapering towards the top.

img_1061.png and


So... on comparing this with your picture, my conclusion would be that your seal is upside down.

Veg, mate... if your uprights are still off the car, try taking the trunnions off and flipping the seal. That will provide a definitive answer. Or double check the orientation of the seal by loosening the trunnion and examining it. They have different profiles top and bottom. On the top they are flat to mate with the upright's non machined surface. On the bottom they have a bit of a lip (which is shaped so as to allow it to slip over the trunnion).
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PostPost by: Bigbaldybloke » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:54 pm

Photos of my newly fitted trunnion and seal. The seal is definitely fitted the right way round and the trunnion is screwed on 15 turns. It?s difficult holding everything and taking a photo, but the overall length is approx 62mm from bottom of trunnion to the top of the machined part of the upright.
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