Re: 26R wheels and hubs...advice
Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:59 pm
I am adding my post to this string from 2 years ago because it is relevant and I perhaps have some additional new information to provide.
There was some discussion on a related string about the hub threads not being fully engaged when using the 26r (5-pin version, standard hub) replica alloy wheels. I just received the following information from Kelsport (apparently the only vendor that supplies the 5-pin, standard hub version):
"The standard steel wheel takes 8 threads, the Dunlop wheel takes 7 threads, and our (Kelsport) wheel (happens to be orange) will take 6 ? to 7 threads. Please see pictures attached. The standard spinner has 9 threads."
So I have the continuing questions that others may be able to clarify:
1. While there is a reduced engaged thread count on the 26R alloy version, is it significant? Looks only like 1+ thread difference.
2. On a proper 4 peg 26R knock-off hub what is the thread engagement? Any different to these 5 pin versions on standard hubs?
3. When researching putting 26R type wheels on my S4, all of the usual vendors (except one: Kelsport) only offered the 4-peg 26R hub conversion and associated 4 peg wheels. In fact, one vendor (well known and respected) also indicated that the 5-pin version does not provide "secure fitment" and that he ends up reselling "a lot" of the proper 4-pin setup to the "poor owner" that initially chose the 5 pin option.
I am trying to "normalize" this last input that the 5-pin option will "fail". Normally to be conservative it sounds like the 4-peg option is the "safest" decision. But the 5-pin option has a number of advantages:
a. Cost. Don't have to buy new 4 pin hubs and pegs. Not insignificant.
b. Ease. Don't have the labor of swapping all the hubs out.
c. Convenience. Can still use a standard wheel as an emergency spare. (My car is for the road). Not sure what to do for a spare if using the 4 peg k/o hubs. I suppose I could buy a 5th alloy wheel (expensive) and not sure it will fit in the the trunk (boot) location - already tight for the steel wheel.
BTW, I am not intending to change the arches on my standard S4 so probably going to go for a 5" alloy. I have calculated various clearances for the different wheel backspace from the steel wheels. The 5 and 5.5" wheels actually provide more clearance for the rear wishbone and spring, so that is not a problem. The 6" wheel would be a problem. The primary issue is that the alloy wheels move the tire further out. Thus, depending on tire used, potentially fouling the wheel arch. As 175/70 R13 tires "almost" work on my car already hope that I could reduce to a 165 width tire if need be with a 5" alloy and still be OK. The reason I say "almost" is that with the current setup (4.5 stock wheels) I sometimes had the fronts foul the arch on full lock and dive. Rears are OK - no clearance probs. I am thinking that my new springs and shocks in the front should alleviate the fouling problem - will only know for sure when I get back on the road.
One last consideration on the 4-peg vs 5-peg option:
My understanding is that the pegs in either case are only used as locating pins. That the designation as a "drive" peg is a misnomer. The securing of the wheel to the hub should only rely on the hub/wheel and spinner/hub
frictional/interference interfaces torqued to specification (~200 ft-lb).
Thus, It doesn't seem like the 5-pin should necessarily be inferior to the 4-peg design.
Interestingly, one vendor noted that some of the Panasports only used 3 locating pegs.
There was some discussion on a related string about the hub threads not being fully engaged when using the 26r (5-pin version, standard hub) replica alloy wheels. I just received the following information from Kelsport (apparently the only vendor that supplies the 5-pin, standard hub version):
"The standard steel wheel takes 8 threads, the Dunlop wheel takes 7 threads, and our (Kelsport) wheel (happens to be orange) will take 6 ? to 7 threads. Please see pictures attached. The standard spinner has 9 threads."
So I have the continuing questions that others may be able to clarify:
1. While there is a reduced engaged thread count on the 26R alloy version, is it significant? Looks only like 1+ thread difference.
2. On a proper 4 peg 26R knock-off hub what is the thread engagement? Any different to these 5 pin versions on standard hubs?
3. When researching putting 26R type wheels on my S4, all of the usual vendors (except one: Kelsport) only offered the 4-peg 26R hub conversion and associated 4 peg wheels. In fact, one vendor (well known and respected) also indicated that the 5-pin version does not provide "secure fitment" and that he ends up reselling "a lot" of the proper 4-pin setup to the "poor owner" that initially chose the 5 pin option.
I am trying to "normalize" this last input that the 5-pin option will "fail". Normally to be conservative it sounds like the 4-peg option is the "safest" decision. But the 5-pin option has a number of advantages:
a. Cost. Don't have to buy new 4 pin hubs and pegs. Not insignificant.
b. Ease. Don't have the labor of swapping all the hubs out.
c. Convenience. Can still use a standard wheel as an emergency spare. (My car is for the road). Not sure what to do for a spare if using the 4 peg k/o hubs. I suppose I could buy a 5th alloy wheel (expensive) and not sure it will fit in the the trunk (boot) location - already tight for the steel wheel.
BTW, I am not intending to change the arches on my standard S4 so probably going to go for a 5" alloy. I have calculated various clearances for the different wheel backspace from the steel wheels. The 5 and 5.5" wheels actually provide more clearance for the rear wishbone and spring, so that is not a problem. The 6" wheel would be a problem. The primary issue is that the alloy wheels move the tire further out. Thus, depending on tire used, potentially fouling the wheel arch. As 175/70 R13 tires "almost" work on my car already hope that I could reduce to a 165 width tire if need be with a 5" alloy and still be OK. The reason I say "almost" is that with the current setup (4.5 stock wheels) I sometimes had the fronts foul the arch on full lock and dive. Rears are OK - no clearance probs. I am thinking that my new springs and shocks in the front should alleviate the fouling problem - will only know for sure when I get back on the road.
One last consideration on the 4-peg vs 5-peg option:
My understanding is that the pegs in either case are only used as locating pins. That the designation as a "drive" peg is a misnomer. The securing of the wheel to the hub should only rely on the hub/wheel and spinner/hub
frictional/interference interfaces torqued to specification (~200 ft-lb).
Thus, It doesn't seem like the 5-pin should necessarily be inferior to the 4-peg design.
Interestingly, one vendor noted that some of the Panasports only used 3 locating pegs.