Wheel Spinner Torque settings

[rcraven]

How do we know that the figures of 160 or 180 or 200 weren't just a guess? Or just a measurement of what you get after using a hammer? Does anyone think or know Lotus worked it out scientifically?

[Baggy2]

Hi, I looked in my 'owners handbook' - the little one intended for the glovebox. On the scanned page (27) it basically says that the 'hammer it until it doesn't move' technique is fine but legislators need a figure and by experimentation 200ftlb is the figure that corresponds to the hammer method.
If using a spanner it also address' the Bluto / Popeye / Olive Oyle matter. It says Popeye should do it - Olive will need help and Bluto will crack the wheel!
Cheers
Baggy

[oldchieft]

Very interesting about whacking the three eared spinner and getting close to that setting using the good old lead hammer method.

The method to find the setting would have been something like this.

1 Get an experienced fitter to put it on with a hammer.

2 Mark it on the nut and the wheel.

3 Take it off.

4 Refit to the marks with a torque wrench.

5 Round the number up a bit to be on the safe side.

In old days on early Doxford ships engine the nuts were done up with a flogging spanner to " a bright metallic ring sound" later a Hydraulic ram at a right angle on a spanner of a given length was used.

Then on Sulzer engines the bolt was stretched with an annular jack and a round nut was tighten with a small tommy bar.

Jon the Chief

[69S4]

In my Nov 71 workshop manual it says "wheel nuts (octagonal) 160-180 lbs/ft " but I can't find anything about how to fit the knock on version. Maybe I've missed it or that page has fallen out (very likely with the state of the manual ) or something, but the only reference I can see is to "use the hammer supplied". Nothing about how many whacks or how to differentiate between a tap, a knock and a whack.

[rgh0]

Very interesting about whacking the three eared spinner and getting close to that setting using the good old lead hammer method.

The method to find the setting would have been something like this.

1 Get an experienced fitter to put it on with a hammer.

2 Mark it on the nut and the wheel.

3 Take it off.

4 Refit to the marks with a torque wrench.

5 Round the number up a bit to be on the safe side.

In old days on early Doxford ships engine the nuts were done up with a flogging spanner to " a bright metallic ring sound" later a Hydraulic ram at a right angle on a spanner of a given length was used.

Then on Sulzer engines the bolt was stretched with an annular jack and a round nut was tighten with a small tommy bar.

Jon the Chief

Used all the same methods over the years assembling big ( 36 inch plus diameter) high pressure ( 1500 psi plus ) piping flanges in the petrochemical industry. Keeping your wheels on should be easy

cheers
Rohan

[mac5777]

Aw the never ending torque question. It is a mystery how Lotus was able to determine the torque settling using only a hammer. It had to be a math formula. Like I said before --- No other car or wheel company states a torque setting for the center locking nuts. The 200 to 220 was for the US Octagonal earless Nader nut and I do mean Nutty. Although they do look good on the ten spoke Lotus Alloy wheels.
Tim Engel's earlier post shows the source for both 160/180 and 200/220 and the manual years. I don't know when the US required the Nader nut. The US even came out with a three eared requirement that bent back for the safety of, who knows???? see picture After finally finding and fitting a bent back spinner in the photo, my original Lotus tool will fit and remove them.
My tools and other tool guys that designed tools that have a method of attaching a socket means you can use a torque wrench. Even with Lotus posting a torque setting, a hammer was still what was recommended. The best one was "finger tight and three good whacks". A good whack from me may be a tap from Olive oil or my wife.
Sarto

[john.p.clegg]

And if you're a wimp like James Bond then this happens...

SPINNER!!.jpg (30.58 KiB) Viewed 1174 times

John

[DABARTH]

This thread is SO helpful to me, and timely! Thanks to Tim and others for discovering these numbers - regardless of the range.

If it's helpful as well, check out the attached photo. I just sourced this 2 1/2" (63.5mm) socket from Northern Tool & Equipment. $17.49! Much less expensive than the weak (in my experience) wrenches available from the Lotus Parts outlets, and now capable of actually using a torque wrench!

Cheers!

Aaron
'69 FHC
Minnesota

[DABARTH]

Now, the only trick might be in keeping the wheels from spinning at that torque window.

[mac5777]

Lotus is the only and I mean the only car company that shows a torque setting in their manuals. The other car Companies just say, use a lead hammer and beat on it until you think if tight. When you use an extension bar or a Torque wrench, the added leverage will spin the wheel even with the weight of the car on the tire.

I have added a wheel wedge to keep the wheels from spinning. The normal way to remove a wheel is to loosen the spinner with a hammer, jack the car up, remove the spinner and wheel, make repairs, replace the wheel, finger tight the spinner then let the car down and beat the spinners on with a hammer. Jaguar guys say to drive the car a short distance to seat the spinners to the wheels and re-tighten.

When using the wheel wedge, you jack the car up just enough so the wheel will turn free. Block the wheel with the wheel wedge and you can remove and install the wheels and spinners without putting any weight of the car on the wheels/hubs for a perfectly seated fit. When using a torque wrench, you'll know the wheels are not over tighten and secured. Getting the spinners off has been the biggest complaint. Good spinner removal tools exerts equal force on all three ears at the same time making it easier to loosen. It takes more force to break the spinners loose. Any knockoff tool is better than a hammer. Keep the new ideas coming. There are a few new ones that are asking $450 to $650 and still have metal to metal contact.
My kit contains a knockoff spinner tool, an impact socket that fits my tool, wheel wedge and a bag to keep everything organized with the car.

Sarto
http://knockoffspinnertool.com/wheel_wedge_story

[TroonSprint]

I have one of Sarto's wheel nut tools and it is a lovely piece of kit. I am a reasonably light guy, weighing in at around 145 pounds. If I put my full weight on a 15 - 16" long bar, I should be just about there shouldn't I?

Mike

[john.p.clegg]

Mike

You've beaten me to it,I'm just making the correct length bar to stand on ...

John (also 145 lbs )

[mac5777]

Mike and John, the longer the bar the easier it is. My earlier recommendation was to use your Lotus shop's expensive Torque Wrench and get the feel for the force it takes to hit 200 ft/lbs a couple of times. I call that your torque memory. Set the wrench so you are pushing down rather than pushing or fulling on it. My website has more information and instruction on torque settings.
http://knockoffspinnertool.com/lotus_el ... structions

Take care,
Sarto

[Europatc]

You must have more peace of mind having a torque setting to work to rather than brute force and a thunder stick. Fine if you're stuck and its all you have. I have one of Sarto's spinner tools and a torque wrench in the boot.I set mine to 200lb no problems
Stuart