Lotus Elan

spyder alloy wheels - steel insert issue (in my opinion)

PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:48 pm

it is not so much about acceleration or braking but about normal direction of rotation. Drive your knock on Elan in reverse long enough and the wheels will come off :lol:

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: laurenth » Mon Jun 10, 2013 9:20 pm

Thanks for the replies guys!

The fact is:
Original steel wheels have a cone to match the spinners,
26r wheels also have a cone to match the spinners.
I've also seen some minilite wheels lookalike having machined inserts to match the spinners. In the US I think...

I think I will go this route:
Machine new inserts with a chamfer matching the cone on the spinners. Will probably go for a 5mm band of contact.
I think it will be better engineered this way.
Infact, thinking about it even more, I start to wonder why I switched my (riveted!...) steelies to heavy, low gravity cast, cheap alloys...well...I suppose we all make mistakes!....Mind you, I did not have much choice. Had to go the 14" route to clear my alloy calipers and larger diameter discs!
Remember....simplicity is best!
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PostPost by: AHM » Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:04 pm

so did you ask Spyder ?
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:41 am

laurenth wrote:Thanks for the replies guys!

The fact is:
Original steel wheels have a cone to match the spinners,
26r wheels also have a cone to match the spinners.
I've also seen some minilite wheels lookalike having machined inserts to match the spinners. In the US I think...

I think I will go this route:
Machine new inserts with a chamfer matching the cone on the spinners. Will probably go for a 5mm band of contact.
I think it will be better engineered this way.
Infact, thinking about it even more, I start to wonder why I switched my (riveted!...) steelies to heavy, low gravity cast, cheap alloys...well...I suppose we all make mistakes!....Mind you, I did not have much choice. Had to go the 14" route to clear my alloy calipers and larger diameter discs!


One of the hardest drivers of an Elan of any sort is Andy Widnall, of Spyder. His +2 zetec with 200bhp uses the minilite wheels with knock ons and the standard offering inserts. If anyone is going to make something break then Mr "Oaf" Widnall will do it. He has no mechanical sympathy for brakes, clutches, suspension or anything related to Lotus, but his wheels stay on no problems.

If it makes you happy to go this route and you are confident that you are not making a proven safe product unsafe, then go for it.
Kindest regards

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PostPost by: Bud English » Tue Jun 11, 2013 4:38 pm

rgh0 wrote:it is not so much about acceleration or braking but about normal direction of rotation. Drive your knock on Elan in reverse long enough and the wheels will come off :lol:
cheers
Rohan


...or tow it with the front wheels on a dolly. You get to watch the right, in my case, rear tire pass you at 65 MPH while you pray that:
A. it doesn't take someone out before it stops rolling.
B. the shower of sparks from the wish bone and bolts doesn't start a fire
C. nobody notices that you need to go home and change your shorts.

I was very lucky that day (apart from that whole wheel coming off thing). Only the +2 and my ego were damaged..
Bud
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Fri Jun 14, 2013 2:33 pm

Laurenth , here are a couple of threads where we kicked this issue around pretty extensively; kind of the 'Zombie Thread'. For framing the issue a bit, The US available Panasports use a conical shaped attachment point, and the UK based Minilites use the curved insert you have. This issue also concerned me, particularly when I pulled off the highway two years ago on the way to Las Vegas due to excessive vibration. I discovered one of my rear Minilites was loose enough that it was going to depart the car! :shock: You can see in the threads I contacted our NA Minilite supplier and had him inquire. They said the design is OK, but no real details were provided. I also considered machining my inserts or getting something made up.

lotus-suspension-f42/alloy-wheel-collar-needed-t25785.html

lotus-suspension-f42/minilites-panasports-t25995.html

I ended up sticking with the supplied curved inserts. I also bought an excellent Nader Nut wrench from a poster here and a solid steel handle to make sure I have the nuts/spinners sufficiently snugged down. I was using a flat steel octagonal wrench when I had the wheel issue; it would start to bend before I was fully torqued. Similar tools with torque wrench handles are available for spinners.

tool-talk-f43/octagonal-spinner-tool-t27627.html

business-listings-f3/knockoff-socket-wrench-t2268.html

No issues since with roughly 11,000 miles including two track days, so I am cool with them as is now.

Curious what Andy at Spyder might say; maybe he can provide torquing recommendations?

HTH
Stu
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PostPost by: Spyder fan » Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:45 pm

Curious what Andy at Spyder might say; maybe he can provide torquing recommendations?


He would say:-
Do them up BFT which is Peterborough shorthand for bash em with a hammer Bloody F*%K*n= Tight


Don't forget that most of them over here have the 3 eared spinners, so torqueing isn't an option unless you go to the expense of one of the spinner tools.
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