Lotus Elan

Yawn yawn its tyres again ...... Winter v Summer

PostPost by: George4th » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:39 pm

Having decided on 155 80 R13 tyres for the S4 I have a choice .....

Summer http://www.goodwheel.fr/yokohama-s760-1 ... 60/1558013

Winter http://www.oponeo.fr/pneumatique/yokoha ... 0-r13-79-t

Am I right in saying that winter tyres may give me a bit more grip in the summer as they would be a softer compound?

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PostPost by: AHM » Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:56 pm

George4th wrote:Am I right in saying that winter tyres may give me a bit more grip in the summer as they would be a softer compound?


For countries where they use winter tyres, they use winter tyres in winter and summer tyres in summer!

Winter tyres have a compound and tread designed for er winter - in the summer they will get too hot and be noisy.

The UK is however still a free country!
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PostPost by: George4th » Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:47 pm

Thanks for the reply. My question is really saying whether winter tyres due to the softer compound would be like track day tyres, something that I use on my Caterham (Yoko A021's)
I beleive the problem is that most modern cars weigh over 1 tonne and consequently tyres have become harder to accommodate this.
Lighter cars need trackday or softer compound tyres otherwise you will not be able to wear them out!

Has anyone else used winter tyres in this way?

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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Tue Sep 25, 2012 6:55 pm

George4th wrote:Thanks for the reply. My question is really saying whether winter tyres due to the softer compound would be like track day tyres, something that I use on my Caterham (Yoko A021's)
I beleive the problem is that most modern cars weigh over 1 tonne and consequently tyres have become harder to accommodate this.
Lighter cars need trackday or softer compound tyres otherwise you will not be able to wear them out!

Has anyone else used winter tyres in this way?

Thanks
George 4th


George,

FWIW

Quote: "So why not use winter tyres all year round? The simple answer is that at higher temperatures, on wet or dry roads, they?re not as good as summer tyres: tyre technology has moved forward a long way but temperature still has a big impact on longevity and performance"

From: http://www.classicandperformancecar.com ... tyres.html

Cheers - Richard
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PostPost by: George4th » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:34 pm

Richard
Thanks for the link ...interesting stuff
My problem is that I have 45 tyres to choose from!
http://www.goodwheel.fr/powersearch/res ... enden.y=10

any ideas?

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PostPost by: George4th » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:36 pm

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PostPost by: elj221c » Tue Sep 25, 2012 7:53 pm

The compound is not necessarily softer but has a higher silica content which allows a given compound to stay flexible at lower temperatures, apparently.

The tread is 'coarser' on a winter tyre in to enable mud and snow to be shed, rather than building in the treads to give you an effective slick.

In countries where it is a requirement to have winter tyres they will be designated with a snowflake and a mountain symbol.

I have used all weather tyres (Vredestein Quatrac 3 with the symbols) on a Mondeo 4 X 4 and currently Nokian WR G2 (which have a similar tread but are supposed to be winters) on my X type Jaguar AWD.

On both cars I have used them all year round. Obviously a (slight) compromise in the summer if it gets really hot but they are still very good when it's wet. Idealy suited to the UK I would have said!


The peace of mind in the winter is worth any perceived wear problems (and I have had none). Neither is noise a problem.

ardee_selby wrote:tyre technology has moved forward a long way


Indeed it has, which is why you can now by 'super car' winter tyres of the appropriate rating instead of having to put your Porshe or Ferrari in the garage over winter!

As a track day tyre I hardly think they would be suitable. The coarser tread blocks would heat up too much and would probably cause a failure, like running wets on a race car.

I suspect the down side of it all is that if you actually want winter tyres on an Elan the lack of suitable sizes would more likely be the overiding factor.
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PostPost by: elj221c » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:00 pm

elj221c wrote:
I suspect the down side of it all is that if you actually want winter tyres on an Elan the lack of suitable sizes would more likely be the overiding factor.


Oops, apparently not!

http://www.mytyres.co.uk/cgi-bin/rshop. ... &weiter=20

FYI. http://www.vredestein.co.uk/car-tyres. It looks like the Quatrac 2 is no more and their new web site is really poor compared to the old one.
Last edited by elj221c on Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: George4th » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:08 pm

Thanks Roy, so its a summer or all season tyre that I will need
But I intend to use the car all year but not in the wet unless we are caught in a shower. (In France)
So summer or all season tyre?

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PostPost by: elj221c » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:38 pm

Well, George,

I used my Elan all year including the daily commute 13miles each way to London, on 185/60s on front and 205/60s rear! We are talking the '70s and 80s here. Used to float a bit on snow. Oh and really dodgy on ice, but then, what car isn't?. Could be interesting in the wet too! The Uniroyal Rally 340s helped there.

One thing that people should know is that winters are great for getting you going but they are very near as lethal when they let go, they just do it later. Gentle cornering and braking still required unless you are Seb Loeb!

With your nice skinny tyres I wouldn't have thought you wouldn't need winters but if it were me I personally would go for the Vreds Q 2 as an all weather bet. Better in the winter but probably a dead loss for track day stuff.

Tyres are a very personal thing as you have implied! BTW, I don't think I would ever run a family car on ordinary tyres now, the same way as the last four have all been four wheel drive. The Elan? Now that will be different if I ever get it going again!
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PostPost by: AHM » Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:21 pm

George4th wrote:Am I right in saying that winter tyres may give me a bit more grip in the summer as they would be a softer compound?

My question is really saying whether winter tyres due to the softer compound would be like track day tyres.

I intend to use the car all year but not in the wet unless we are caught in a shower.

Are you sure Terry?! Like I said at the beginning Winter tyres for winter, summer tyres for summer and consequently track day tyres for... Will you be doing trackdays?


George4th wrote:I beleive the problem is that most modern cars weigh over 1 tonne and consequently tyres have become harder to accommodate this.
Lighter cars need trackday or softer compound tyres otherwise you will not be able to wear them out!


Most modern cars weighing over a ton don't run on 155/80/13's and have wider lower profile tyres.

"Grip" is related to the coefficient of friction which is a function of the compound and tread pattern and not directly related to contact patch area - So no, modern cars don't have harder tyres so that the wear slowly. But commercial vehicles do so they have ... Commercial tyres, denoted by a C after the 155/80/13 and no you don't want them!

If the continentals (people - pun intended!) are confusing you with summer and winter tyres look on a UK site for a brand that you have heard of and choose one you like - We don't need Winter tyres or consequently summer tyres!

I use Firestone F590 which have plenty of grip for road use and good wet weather performance. There was a thread recently discussing.

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PostPost by: George4th » Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:57 am

AHM wrote:
George4th wrote: consequently track day tyres for... Will you be doing trackdays?
Simon


No track days, the idea on a Caterham is because its a very light car , track day tyres are used in lieu of standard tyres for normal road use.

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PostPost by: 69S4 » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:37 am

elj221c wrote:
I suspect the down side of it all is that if you actually want winter tyres on an Elan the lack of suitable sizes would more likely be the overiding factor.



I was wondering about that as well but a quick search through just one online retailer (http://www.oponeo.co.uk for 155/80 R13 came up with -

* Tyres Summer (40)
* Tyres Winter (35)
* Tyres All season (7)

I've not been through all the listings to edit out the ones for wheelbarrows etc but over 80 different types is a lot more than I thought there would be
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PostPost by: George4th » Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:43 am

OK Stuart , what would you buy for your S4?

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(PS I havent a clue what to buy!)
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PostPost by: AHM » Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:10 am

George4th wrote:No track days, the idea on a Caterham is because its a very light car , track day tyres are used in lieu of standard tyres for normal road use.
George 4th


All things being equal the weight has no effect - "Grip" = Coefficient of friction x weight . But the grip required is also proportional to the weight, so the effect of weight is zero.

ie yes you will get more grip from trackday tyres but you need more grip because you drive harder, rather than because the car is lighter.

Also all things are not equal, there are other factors, which is where personal preference comes in.

Loads of discussion in the archive - Most recently 3 weeks ago: elan-f14/what-tyres-are-the-best-t25941-15.html

If you looking at tyre web sites and see 45 options you will get nowhere - ask your tyre fitter
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