Lotus Elan

Minilites or Panasports

PostPost by: holywood3645 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:58 pm

Gary wrote:
"As far as the Panasports go and the "lack of drive peg holes go", please tell me who has busted up a wheel. I think someone did but they let the knock-on come loose and that would mess up any alloy or steel wheel"

I would hate to be the first! I don't think Lotus over engineered the designed of anything, including the number of peg drives for the wheel. If they provide 5, then I think they should be all used. The panasport main design appears to be based on them being mounted using wheel nuts and the peg drive knock-on was an after thought. The Minilites have modified the wheel design to include enough material for 5 lociating pegs.

If 40% of your wheel studs were removed, would you feel safe driving you car on a daily basis. I'm shocked no-one has taken issue of the poor peg drive design in the panasport before. It was only when I set them side by side that I noticed.

James
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PostPost by: Harvey » Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:26 pm

James,

As an alternative to the Minis and Panas you might want to consider a set of original Lotus alloys still available from Dave Bean. I must admit, however, I was tempted by Spyder 14" wheels for extra tire options on my '71 +2S.
Lotus plus 2, house pictures 014.jpg and


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PostPost by: m750rider » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:19 pm

James

I've driven on Panasports with the "poor peg drive design" for 15 years. I have had no issues, the peg drive has not been damaged in that time. They might look not as good as the Minilites but they perform just fine.

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PostPost by: gordont » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:58 pm

abstamaria - the thread size on a 26R hub and a standard hub is the same, all you need confirm is that the angle of the wing bit on the spinner will clear whatever wheel you have
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:37 am

James, thanks for posting the pics of the back side of the Panasport; had never seen the peg drive position issue before. Think I like my Minilites better now.

With regards to the collar design in the Minilite (with the reduced contact area and the issues discussed on the Zombie Thread), I upgraded my Nader Nut wrench bar to 1" solid steel so I can comfortably torque the snot out of them.

Cheers!
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PostPost by: holywood3645 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:54 am

Gary your speadsheet does not have these listed.

I weighted both the Minilite and the Pansport 13x 5's knockoffs
It was no shock the Minlite was about 1 lb more than the Panasport.

11.08 Panasport
12.1 Minilite (Miniheavy)

James
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Minilite weight.jpg and
Panasport weight.jpg and
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PostPost by: abstamaria » Thu Aug 30, 2012 11:20 am

gordont wrote:abstamaria - the thread size on a 26R hub and a standard hub is the same, all you need confirm is that the angle of the wing bit on the spinner will clear whatever wheel you have


Thank you, Gordon. I have 26R hub nuts on 26R hubs, but wasn't sure they would fit my original hubs. I'm away from home presently.

Andy
Last edited by abstamaria on Fri Aug 31, 2012 4:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: khamai » Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:04 pm

I guess I'll chime in here... I guess I'm the one to blame for the Panasport wheels. I was selling Panasports at the time and wanted a nice alloy wheel for my Elan to replace my cracking steel wheels. With nothing available I took to trying to find a bolt-on wheel that could be repurposed. I approached Panasport about obtaining a blank undrilled wheel that I could modify. They asked me what I was doing and I told them I wanted to modify their wheel to fit my Elan. The next thing I knew I was getting a call from Japan. Here's the story - http://gglotus.org/ggtech/elan-panasport/elanwhls.htm

Why 5" and not 5.5" - Panasport's narrowest wheel was 5". 5.5" wheels would not fit under and S2 or S3 without modifying the rear spring perch or adding flares. This was something I didn't want to do at the time.

Pin Drive Holes - As can be seen in the above photos there are 3 complete holes for the pin drives and 2 partial holes in the hub face of the Panasport wheel. Keep in mind that if your K/Os are properly tighted all of the shear loads between wheel and hub are absorbed by the clamping force of the K/O nut and the pin drive is redundant. Were the K/O to come partially loose the pins would come into play. In the case of the Panasport there are 4 pins in play at all times. The 2 partial holes are open on opposite sides, so under brakes one would provide drive and then under acceleration the other. While one can argue the Panasport pin drive holes are not optimal, the reality is that 4 pins are in play and the entire pin drive set-up is redundant if the K/O is properly tightened. In the years since Panasport released these wheels I have yet to hear of any failure with a properly mounted wheel.

Quality - I've not seen a Minilite in the past couple years. But, I can say the quality of the Panasports is top notch.

Today, we are blessed to have options, something we did not have in the past.

Cheers,
Kiyoshi
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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Thu Aug 30, 2012 6:39 pm

khamai wrote:Keep in mind that if your K/Os are properly tighted all of the shear loads between wheel and hub are absorbed by the clamping force of the K/O nut and the pin drive is redundant.


Considering that the torque generated by the engine at the rear axles and by the brakes at the front axles are multiples of the tightening torque for the knock-on nuts, I will keep all five pegs fully engaged. I am just a belt and suspenders type.
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PostPost by: holywood3645 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:36 pm

Kiyoshi,
You did a good job explaining the history of the Panasport wheel and it modification for the Elan. As I suspected the Panasport knock-on is is a modified 4 bolt wheel. Also some panasport owners appear to be comfortable with their wheels, however some were not aware of the issue with the Peg Drive.

After your (4 peg explanation which i don't buy, or the clamping explaination that if were true, we wouldn't need pegs) and with reference to braking and accelerating, I am now even more concerned. The additional concern is in respect to the 2 of the 3 (apparent good) peg drive holes that are located close the edge of the segment at 10 o-clock and 1 o-clock. The metal on one side is minimal at both locations, and the thin side will be stressed during acceleration and the other during braking. In fact there is only one peg hole that I would consider in a proper location is at 6 o-clock.

Like they say a picture is worth a thousand words.
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Panasport peg drive1.png and
Min peg.jpg and
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PostPost by: khamai » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:51 am

holywood3645, I won't debate your points, they are valid. The Panasport pin drive holes are not absolutely perfect. I simply stated that they are more than adequate and do not pose an issue if the K/O is properly tightened and maintained. There is more than enough metal around 3 of the 5 holes. I've never seen any of the 3 holes broken even when driven with a loose K/O.

I might also point out that Panasport is accutely aware of product liability, especially in the suit happy U.S., were the configuration considered unsafe the engineers and lawyers at Panasport would not make them available.

In the end each of us needs to weigh the pros/cons and choose which wheels are best for our individual use and those that we are comfortable using. The wonderful thing is that we have a choice. Clearly you aren't convinced or comfortable with the Panasport wheels so Minilites should be your choice. On the flip side there are many who have Panasport wheels and they have served those owners as a brilliant solution.

As I stated, when I worked with Panasport there weren't any choices. It was difficult to find replacement steel wheels. So, I'm thankful Panasport was open to making these wheels and continuing to make them available to us for all these years despite the fact the volume is no where near a level to make Panasport any real profit. Obviously I'm a big Panasport fan, they are a bunch of enthusiasts that are out to help other enthusiasts. The Minilite folks could be the same, it's just that I don't have a personal experience with them, so I don't have any for or against them.

Anyway, I've said enough.

Cheers,
Kiyoshi
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PostPost by: abstamaria » Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:21 pm

Kiyoshi, that is true. In 1995 or so, when I wanted to go racing with the Elan and looked for alloy wheels, only the the Panasports were available. I ordered them, but my plans had changed by the time they arrived, so I never installed them. I gave them to a friend's son, who was restoring an Elan in Ohio then. He still has them, so thank you for your contribution there.

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PostPost by: stugilmour » Sun Sep 02, 2012 3:20 pm

James, are the Minilites in your pics 13" or 14"?

Here are some pics of my 13" x 5.5" Minilites. All five drive peg holes are open on the outside of the hub on mine, but yours look closed.
Attachments
Minilite drive peg hole zoom.JPG and
This pic shows the drive peg hole open on the outside of the hub. All five holes are the same.
Minilite Front.JPG and
13" x 5.5" Minilites for a Plus 2. Tires are presently 175/70/13's, but will be changes to stock 165/13's from Coker shortly.
Minilite Back.JPG and
Shows the five drive peg holes around the hub. All five are open on the side due to the size of the hub relative to the location of the drive pegs.
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PostPost by: holywood3645 » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:13 pm

Stu, thanks for posting. My minilites are 5 x 13's. It looks like they modified the design. They do not offer magnesium any longer. Are yours magnesium?
I checked the 26R style knockon spinners I'm cob smacked by the prices
.
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PostPost by: bast0n » Sun Sep 02, 2012 4:58 pm

Pray tell me what is wrong with these..............?

wheel 041.JPG and


Just stay with CABC originals and be superior to all your friends.................

Apologies for cow shit on the bodywork - this is Somerset .............
David

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