No Servo decision but then what!
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Hello
With my S4 arriving soon I have begun to think about brakes. The car has no servo but a dual braking master cylinder. My plan is not to fit a servo as I am use to that on the Seven and I am concerned about all the related problems.
Anyway I have read loads in the archives and are now none the wiser.
I have surmised that there are 3 ways to improve the brake efficiently:-
1. Fit a smaller bore master cylinder
2. Fit +2 larger bore / pad area callipers
3. Fit "no servo" softer pads all round
My problem is that I suspect by doing both items 1 & 2 the brake pedal travel is increased substantially.
Is it possible to do one of item 1 & 2 with No 3 , in which case which of 1 and 2 is the best?
Thanks
Terry
With my S4 arriving soon I have begun to think about brakes. The car has no servo but a dual braking master cylinder. My plan is not to fit a servo as I am use to that on the Seven and I am concerned about all the related problems.
Anyway I have read loads in the archives and are now none the wiser.
I have surmised that there are 3 ways to improve the brake efficiently:-
1. Fit a smaller bore master cylinder
2. Fit +2 larger bore / pad area callipers
3. Fit "no servo" softer pads all round
My problem is that I suspect by doing both items 1 & 2 the brake pedal travel is increased substantially.
Is it possible to do one of item 1 & 2 with No 3 , in which case which of 1 and 2 is the best?
Thanks
Terry
- terryp
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Terry,
I ran an S4 with no servo (sick of problems) and fitted the smaller bore master cylinder with green stuff pads. No problem with travel. The extra travel actually gives you some pedal feel. When bedded in I forgot all about servo's etc. The new owner still runs the car this way. No complaints.
Mike
I ran an S4 with no servo (sick of problems) and fitted the smaller bore master cylinder with green stuff pads. No problem with travel. The extra travel actually gives you some pedal feel. When bedded in I forgot all about servo's etc. The new owner still runs the car this way. No complaints.
Mike
Mike
Elan S4 Zetec
Suzuki Hustler T250
Suzuki TC120R trailcat
Yamaha YR5
Suzuki Vstrom 650XT
Suzuki TS185K
Elan S4 Zetec
Suzuki Hustler T250
Suzuki TC120R trailcat
Yamaha YR5
Suzuki Vstrom 650XT
Suzuki TS185K
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miked - Coveted Fifth Gear
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Terry,
is the Elan from the States?
Also, if this helps, under my current ownership the Plus 2 and the Sunbeam Tiger both have had their servos removed and smaller diameter brake masters installed. I suffer no pedal distance problems or problem stopping. Been cut off a few times and all went well.
I'm going to install a surface too air missile launch system in the Tiger. They sell them under the "Get Smart" logo. I will then proceed to launch a preemptive strike at the next bastard that cuts me off..................
Therefore necessitating a launch and brake procedure.
Go ARMY!
Mike
is the Elan from the States?
Also, if this helps, under my current ownership the Plus 2 and the Sunbeam Tiger both have had their servos removed and smaller diameter brake masters installed. I suffer no pedal distance problems or problem stopping. Been cut off a few times and all went well.
I'm going to install a surface too air missile launch system in the Tiger. They sell them under the "Get Smart" logo. I will then proceed to launch a preemptive strike at the next bastard that cuts me off..................
Therefore necessitating a launch and brake procedure.
Go ARMY!
Mike
"Be Polite, Be Professional, But have a plan to kill everyone you meet"
General "Mad Dog" James Mattis United States Marines
General "Mad Dog" James Mattis United States Marines
- cal44
- Fourth Gear
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S4 (not SE) spec. Check the manual, Manuel.
Cheers,
Pete.
http://www.petetaylor.org.uk
LOTUS ELAN flickr GROUP: https://www.flickr.com/groups/2515899@N20
flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16096573@N02/sets/72157624226380576/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16096573@N02/
Pete.
http://www.petetaylor.org.uk
LOTUS ELAN flickr GROUP: https://www.flickr.com/groups/2515899@N20
flickr: http://www.flickr.com/photos/16096573@N02/sets/72157624226380576/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16096573@N02/
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elansprint71 - Coveted Fifth Gear
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terryp wrote:Hello
With my S4 arriving soon I have begun to think about brakes. The car has no servo but a dual braking master cylinder. My plan is not to fit a servo as I am use to that on the Seven and I am concerned about all the related problems.
Anyway I have read loads in the archives and are now none the wiser.
I have surmised that there are 3 ways to improve the brake efficiently:-
1. Fit a smaller bore master cylinder
2. Fit +2 larger bore / pad area callipers
3. Fit "no servo" softer pads all round
My problem is that I suspect by doing both items 1 & 2 the brake pedal travel is increased substantially.
Is it possible to do one of item 1 & 2 with No 3 , in which case which of 1 and 2 is the best?
Thanks
Terry
Just drive it!
Only if you later feel that you want softer brake pedal pressure then start thinking about servos. I think you need TWO servos if you have dual braking and that is going to be pretty expensive.
I took the servo OUT of my S3 many many years ago and I've never missed it.
Bill Williams
36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
36/6725 S3 Coupe OGU108E Yellow over Black.
- billwill
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Yes the car is from the US and no I can't drive it as it needs a full rebuild.
The problem is that I can choose what to rebuild, so I need to make the choice
It looks as if the standard Callipers + smaller bore master cylinder will be OK
Thanks
Terry
The problem is that I can choose what to rebuild, so I need to make the choice
It looks as if the standard Callipers + smaller bore master cylinder will be OK
Thanks
Terry
- terryp
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Hi Terry,
I'd suggest you drive the car first and see how it feels before planning upgrades, you might be happy as it is. Having said that, this summer I modified the system on my S3 to remove the servo and took the steps you're contemplating. If you search the forum there's lots of info on exactly what you'll need and folks' views on master cyl. bore, etc.
I did mine in stages to see the individual effect, firstly the calipers with 16P ones & new larger discs/pads. Sourcing new calipers & discs was easy, the brackets to mount them took a little longer and was my biggest problem. That made a noticeable improvement and if I'm honest the increased pedal travel due to larger piston diameter wasn't really significant, like Mike said it gives a better feel to the brakes. I ran the car like that for a few weeks before deciding what bore m/cyl to get. In the end I just bought a later Spitfire one (0.7" bore) and mounted it with a remote reservoir & fluid warning light as the triumph reservoir is angled and would just look wrong. The only thing I overlooked was that the bare m/cyl I bought had metric fittings instead of imperial but easily overcome.
Pedal effort is fine, the only plans for next year are to get some greenstuff pads as it's on standard GT6 ones bought as a package with the discs and I think the greenstuff pads have a better initial bite.
Brian
I'd suggest you drive the car first and see how it feels before planning upgrades, you might be happy as it is. Having said that, this summer I modified the system on my S3 to remove the servo and took the steps you're contemplating. If you search the forum there's lots of info on exactly what you'll need and folks' views on master cyl. bore, etc.
I did mine in stages to see the individual effect, firstly the calipers with 16P ones & new larger discs/pads. Sourcing new calipers & discs was easy, the brackets to mount them took a little longer and was my biggest problem. That made a noticeable improvement and if I'm honest the increased pedal travel due to larger piston diameter wasn't really significant, like Mike said it gives a better feel to the brakes. I ran the car like that for a few weeks before deciding what bore m/cyl to get. In the end I just bought a later Spitfire one (0.7" bore) and mounted it with a remote reservoir & fluid warning light as the triumph reservoir is angled and would just look wrong. The only thing I overlooked was that the bare m/cyl I bought had metric fittings instead of imperial but easily overcome.
Pedal effort is fine, the only plans for next year are to get some greenstuff pads as it's on standard GT6 ones bought as a package with the discs and I think the greenstuff pads have a better initial bite.
Brian
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UAB807F - Fourth Gear
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Thanks Brian but as I said I cannot drive the car as it needs a complete rebuild and I do not want to rebuild something that ultimately will be wrong.
I want to know the right answer first
I think I will keep the existing callipers, change the master cylinder and buy soft pads initially and then see what happens after I drive it ......in 2 or 3 years time!
Thanks to all
Terry
I want to know the right answer first
I think I will keep the existing callipers, change the master cylinder and buy soft pads initially and then see what happens after I drive it ......in 2 or 3 years time!
Thanks to all
Terry
- terryp
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Terry, which softer pads do you intend to use? I found Greenstuff terrible. All new bits throughout and could not under any circumstances lock up the wheels.
Mark
Mark
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mark030358 - Coveted Fifth Gear
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Hi
Re pad type. I run a plus 2 front system (no servo, on a sprint) and have tried various pad materials- Greenstuff, Triumph GT6 and std plus 2 ones. Only my opinion but here goes-
Greenstuff- work but not brilliant. Little bite from cold. Warmed up- better- but not confidence inspiring!
Triumph GT6- similar to above. NOTE-I bought these from a main Triumph agent who informed me that there was no difference between servoed and unservoed GT6's- he appears to be incorrect on this point.
Std Plus 2- hopeless- no stopping power to speak of.
Had a (rare) brainwave- scouted e-bay and found a supplier of original type Mk1 Gt6 pads (probably asbestos type).
Result- a world of difference- immediate bite from cold and very progressive in action. MoT tester was particularly impressed with performance on the rollers.
You definitely need genuine old stock Mk1 GT6 pads if you switch to the plus 2 front system. I paid about ?25 inc postage. Look around- these pads are still out there.
Regards
John
Re pad type. I run a plus 2 front system (no servo, on a sprint) and have tried various pad materials- Greenstuff, Triumph GT6 and std plus 2 ones. Only my opinion but here goes-
Greenstuff- work but not brilliant. Little bite from cold. Warmed up- better- but not confidence inspiring!
Triumph GT6- similar to above. NOTE-I bought these from a main Triumph agent who informed me that there was no difference between servoed and unservoed GT6's- he appears to be incorrect on this point.
Std Plus 2- hopeless- no stopping power to speak of.
Had a (rare) brainwave- scouted e-bay and found a supplier of original type Mk1 Gt6 pads (probably asbestos type).
Result- a world of difference- immediate bite from cold and very progressive in action. MoT tester was particularly impressed with performance on the rollers.
You definitely need genuine old stock Mk1 GT6 pads if you switch to the plus 2 front system. I paid about ?25 inc postage. Look around- these pads are still out there.
Regards
John
- worzel
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