Lotus Elan

Brake pipe flaring tool

PostPost by: stugilmour » Sun Nov 06, 2011 4:49 am

prezoom wrote:... I have never tried to do a "bubble" type flair, but figure that it can be done with the new tool.

Anybody had experience doing the bubble type flair with the standard type tooling? If so, any hints?

Rob Walker
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Rob, according to the Dave Bean catalog write-up, many experienced folks get intimidated by the bubble flare. It is simply the first step of the double flare. Try it out and just stop at the first step. I found the standard tool does it fine, even the cheap one; cheap tool only caused me grief on the second step. As mentioned above, protrusion has to be correct or you will leave a mal-formed burr at the end of the bubble.

Great tips. Another tip is you can see in Andrew's tool array the pointed tool used to de-burr the interior of the tube prior to flaring. The cut has to be perfectly perpendicular as well.
Stu
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PostPost by: oldelanman » Sun Nov 06, 2011 8:39 am

stugilmour wrote:Rob, according to the Dave Bean catalog write-up, many experienced folks get intimidated by the bubble flare. It is simply the first step of the double flare. Try it out and just stop at the first step. I found the standard tool does it fine, even the cheap one; cheap tool only caused me grief on the second step. As mentioned above, protrusion has to be correct or you will leave a mal-formed burr at the end of the bubble.

Stu, Not quite that simple....the bubble flare is a different shape having a square shoulder instead of a conical one. You need to use the back face of the pipe clamp of a standard tool, the front face has a tapered hole to form the back of the standard flare.
Brake_flare_information.jpg
Brake_flare_information.jpg (21.49 KiB) Viewed 2678 times


Regards,
Roger
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PostPost by: nebogipfel » Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:04 pm

45bvtc wrote:I do have a Sykes-Pickavant (024001) brake-pipe flaring tool that I have had for more years than I care to remember but have used to re-pipe a number of Lotus Elan and Lotus Europa cars. The tool is boxed and in A1 condition.

The punches and dies are suitable for 3/16" and/or 1/4" bore steel and copper pipes with convex/single flares and concave/double flares.

I have recently sold my Elan and am no longer in need of this tool.

You guys have first shout.

If you are interested then send me a PM. I'll sell for ?75 and ship at ?12.



FWIW I can vouch for the fact that this is a good tool ....been using them for donkey's years.

Not sure if you can buy the dies anymore? but otherwise a proper professional tool which will give years of service
John

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PostPost by: prezoom » Sun Nov 06, 2011 5:38 pm

Thanks for all the help. Now I just have to get back my tool from the shop I loaned it to several months ago. Then buy several thousands of feet of practice tubing.

Rob Walker
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Rob Walker
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PostPost by: gerrym » Thu Nov 10, 2011 7:51 pm

Hi, I use the very expensive SP Flaremaster kit. Its's better than the bench mounted expensive unit but can be used anywhere even on the car. The tool and dies set the protrusion so it is absolutely foolproof. With the hydraulic plunger light wrist action is all it takes.
http://www.uktools.com/flaremaster2-bra ... 11497.html

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PostPost by: Andy8421 » Fri Nov 11, 2011 6:12 am

Jason1 wrote:Foxie is dead right; you need to practice with the length protruding to get it right.

I was waiting for someone to post a few pics of what can be achieved with the cheap tool but so far no one brave enough to take the criticism. :D Well feel free to poke fun at my work below; all done in about 5 seconds in the dark corner of my garage in the last minute. I would clean off the edges before fitting.

Pics show the 2 types of end achievable, the cheap equipment and what happens if you get the length too long. It's worth noting that this tool cost me less than ?10 and I have never had a leak that did not seal after tightening.

If you can do better show us yours and give us all some tips.

Hope it helps.

Jason


As shown in the pictures here, the cheaper tools with the short, internally ridged pipe clamps/dies leave indentations around the circumference of the pipe behind the flare. The more expensive tools have longer, smooth pipe clamps/dies - if they leave any marks, they are longditudinal.

Although it hasn't happended to me, I have seen reports that the circular indentations cause stress concentrations and make the flares more likely to fail with repeated vibration.
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PostPost by: lotocone » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:07 pm

Jason[/quote]

... the cheaper tools with the short, internally ridged pipe clamps/dies leave indentations around the circumference of the pipe behind the flare. The more expensive tools have longer, smooth pipe clamps/dies - if they leave any marks, they are longditudinal.

Although it hasn't happended to me, I have seen reports that the circular indentations cause stress concentrations and make the flares more likely to fail with repeated vibration.[/quote]

I've been wondering about the indentations around the new Cunifer brake lines I have. I shaped the lines and had a shop make the bubble flares. Most flaring tools make these marks around the circumference of the line, I understand. Now I wonder if anyone has had a problem with line failures from stress concentrations. Can anyone comment on this?
Bob
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PostPost by: billwill » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:10 pm

I've located another tool
Image
which looks rather different than all the others.
Priced around ?38 has anyone tried one?

http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu/V ... brakes.php
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PostPost by: AHM » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:12 am

billwill wrote:Priced around ?38 has anyone tried one?


Yes, I have this and the ?10 one. Quite a lot neater than the ?10 (neither are great) and I get more consistent results. I wish I had bought the SP one!

Make sure that the screw thread is perpendicular and that the cone is central if not it will push the flare off to one side - I had to modify mine!
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PostPost by: carrierdave » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:08 pm

Hi Bill - Yes I have this one and I have found it to be really good with consistent results. I replaced all of my brake pipes last year and I haven't had one joint failure.

The only area you need to experiment with is the amount of pipe that protrudes out of the jaws to make the joint.

Dave
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PostPost by: jfornarola » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:55 pm

I've had very good results with FedHill here in the US (www.fedhillus.com). They have all the piping, fittings and will loan you a very nice flare tool for minimum expense. Since I don't expect to make brake pipes often I went the loaner route on the flare tool. I have no affiliation with them other than as a very satisfied customer.

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PostPost by: jono » Mon Oct 29, 2012 3:38 pm

Bill,

I've got that one and it is an excellent tool. A few 'trials' and then I knocked up all of my +2 pipes using it - excellent and consistent results.

I'm not expecting to ever have to do the pipes again on my car and so wonder why anyone would want to pay more than this for a brake pipe tool :?:

Jon
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