Lotus Elan

A simple wheel protector to reduce knock-on wheel nut mishap

PostPost by: nebogipfel » Wed Aug 17, 2011 12:41 pm

rennbaron wrote:Hello John,

......for those of us who can handle a hammer........

Christian



You've got me there Christian .... 40+ years playing with cars and I've never been on an advanced hammering course :wink: :lol:

I like simple cheap ideas and the original posters device is a good example but (and I know this is off topic) hammering wheel nuts to tighten them is very crude and in-exact and something along the lines of Sarto's device must be better. It protects car, wheel, spinner and user but more importantly gives you a good idea of how tight your wheels are.

Although I use hammer and hardwood at present (it being cheap and simple) I hope to invest in one of Sarto's devices in due course :)
John

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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:05 pm

ardee_selby wrote:Interesting thread this...

I recall a discussion on here (somewhere) about the use of spinners (in conjunction with the spacer piece) for rear hub removal.
In this application, concerns were expressed that excessive hammering could damage the rear bearings (brinelling)

Was this concern well founded? Could it also apply to hammering spinners when fitting a wheel?

Cheers - Richard

Stop Press - Found the thread...

elan-f15/rear-hubs-off-minutes-t1561.html

"Just in general hammer blows tend to brinell damage bearings anyways. Folks really should stop using a hammer to tighten up and loosen KO nuts. Suspect the lifetime of the wheel bearing is shortened by the usage of the hammer"


I've heard of bearing damage occurring on new cars after shipping from Europe to America.
This was due to them being subjected to the prop/shaft/engine vibrations from the Ship for many hours.
However that problem was overcome & was most likely a batch quality problem with those bearings or maybe an improved heat treatment introduced to prevent further occurrences.
I don't think the occasional few bashes with a heavy mallet would have quite the same effect.

I consider myself pretty handy with a hammer but I worry more about hitting the bodywork on the upstroke rather than the more powerful down stroke.
I do have a record of knocking out inspection lamps etc. :lol:

John
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 4:39 pm

Hi John 3380H, If I had known about your plastic stuff back when my spinners came loose, I may not have developed my knockoff tools. With my new panasports/minlite type wheels and new spinners there is only about 1/2 inch of clearance between the two. Using a hammer I began the process of removing the paint from my Panasports wheels one chip at a time. Your protector would have worked for me. My next thought, why did the spinner get loose enough to back off and how do I not over tighten them. That inspired my tool that had a Hex shaft to fit a socket and a breaker bar or even better a torque wrench. Lotus was the only car manufacturer that stated in their manual a torque setting (160 to 220 ft/lbs) All of the others requires a hammer and a good guess for tightness. I've been told that the lead hammer is the best as it will deform and not dent the spinner. Leather/plastic hammers may not tighten as well and the lead hammer will have to be reshaped from time to time but it still chipped my wheel paint using it.
Mike Ostrov's many Elites uses a two eared spinner and at some point the hammer swing will be horizontal and subject to a glancing blow. I check my spinners every so often, by loosing them and then re-torque to 190 ft/lbs.
Anything that keeps the wheels on and keeps our Elans looking fresh has to be good.
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PostPost by: nebogipfel » Wed Aug 17, 2011 5:41 pm

mac5777 wrote: I've been told that the lead hammer is the best as it will deform and not dent the spinner


Hi Sarto,

I had to hit my spinners with the lead hammer a couple of times when hammer/wood didn't provide enough energy and sadly lead does bruise them.
John

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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Wed Aug 17, 2011 7:11 pm

Hi Guys,

I don't carry a spare wheel, so all my kit is secured in the spare wheel well and bungied down with no chance of coming loose. I find tightening the wheels to the 180 Lbs ft results in spinners that are a bugger to slacken off again and I have tried believe me. So far they have remained as tight as a drum. My mind was made up for me some time ago when I twice had an accident with the lead alloy hammer. One when I smacked the body,and the other time I smacked my body. Now that risk has been removed, I am very happy. What's not to like?

The spare wheel is replaced with the puncture in a can which I also used very successfully in our Z4's when we took the 'runflats' off and also now std fit in our Porsche. Neither the Z's or the Porsche have spare wheels..

To each there own though. Everybody is different. I just won't take the risk of injury to either me or my cars perfect bodywork. And my expensive re-chromed spinners are perfect too...

Happy man I am... Good luck. And the idea of a protector is sound if you must use the hammer.. No issues there.

AB13 +CB
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PostPost by: diggerdog » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:01 pm

Is this now a JOKE?

I mean listen to yourselves:

* "I don't carry a spare wheel",
* "I just won't take the risk of injury to either me or my cars perfect bodywork",
* "I worry more about hitting the bodywork on the upstroke",
* "I always use Sarto's superbly made spinner torque tool + 2 'taps' with a copper hammer"

IT'S A BLOODY CAR for Gods sake!

They're KNOCK-ON wheels - never called bar-on wheels or torque-on wheels.

They KNOCK-ON with a hammer wheels and KNOCK-OFF with a hammer wheels!

Get over it already!

Steve Sutcliffe, in this-weeks Autocar magazine. Sutcliffe used one word that describes some of these posts succinctly: he wrote "Futtocks".

What a GREAT word that is: FUTTOCKS.

Go get in your Elan and SHOUT "FUTTOCKS". And then go out and drive the FUTTOCKS out of it.

Bring it home, safely, wash it, stand back and admire it, and shout "FUTTOCKS".

And do it AGAIN tomorrow. You're ALL getting older by the day and your Elan driving time is getting LESS!

I mean "I don't want to damage my ****ing spinner". Laughable really, isn't it?

FUTTOCKS, FUTTOCKS, FUTTOCKS?.
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PostPost by: types26/36 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:22 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol: Diggerdog....some people could described this post as a "load of FUTTOCKS" :lol: :lol:
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:34 pm

Not to me it's not. Hammering the futtocks out of the spinners is futtocks stupid and very old tech'. You can go and knock the futtocks out of yours and I will keep out of the futtocks way ... Just in case a lead alloy futtocks hammer goes futtocks flying. Either accidently or not. Don't like the futtocks advice? Who futtocks cares...

Oh, and yes I do drive the futtocks out of my car! All the time. It's not a show queen (although its quite good at that too), and I intend keeping it that way.

Have fun bent nuts! :roll:

& ... Yes! Very much a load of futtocks!!

AB...
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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:37 pm

diggerdog wrote:Is this now a JOKE?

I mean listen to yourselves:

* "I don't carry a spare wheel",
* "I just won't take the risk of injury to either me or my cars perfect bodywork",
* "I worry more about hitting the bodywork on the upstroke",
* "I always use Sarto's superbly made spinner torque tool + 2 'taps' with a copper hammer"

IT'S A BLOODY CAR for Gods sake!

They're KNOCK-ON wheels - never called bar-on wheels or torque-on wheels.

They KNOCK-ON with a hammer wheels and KNOCK-OFF with a hammer wheels!

Get over it already!

Steve Sutcliffe, in this-weeks Autocar magazine. Sutcliffe used one word that describes some of these posts succinctly: he wrote "Futtocks".

What a GREAT word that is: FUTTOCKS.

Go get in your Elan and SHOUT "FUTTOCKS". And then go out and drive the FUTTOCKS out of it.

Bring it home, safely, wash it, stand back and admire it, and shout "FUTTOCKS".

And do it AGAIN tomorrow. You're ALL getting older by the day and your Elan driving time is getting LESS!

I mean "I don't want to damage my ****ing spinner". Laughable really, isn't it?

FUTTOCKS, FUTTOCKS, FUTTOCKS?.

I tend to agree with you Mr Futtucks, sorry, Mr Diggerdog - apart from my part you quoted (#4).
Since I lost my calibrated lead/copper/nylon/aluminium Thor hammer, I was forced to obay the great man's instruction and use a torque wrench.
Brian Clarke
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PostPost by: GrUmPyBoDgEr » Thu Aug 18, 2011 3:48 pm

Seems like someone's feathers have been ruffled. :roll:

Oh & I did say something like "futtocks" when I did smash the rear wheel arch on my Elite when tightening the wheel with a mallet. Errrrm, on the "upstroke", oh so simple for a w-nker like me :lol:
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:08 pm

:lol: :lol: :lol:

I said F****ing S***e. !"?$%^&*()*^%?&^%$!!!..... ETC.. ETC.. when I smashed the front wheel arch on my +2S130.... Oh yes I did!! I also said something very similar when I chipped my (now a LOT older and more difficult to repair) Kneecap and went rolling around my drive way prior to heading off to A&E. I was off work for a week. :?

You can keep you futtocks knockometer. Mine is now due now for recalibration (read binning!!). How have you calibrated yours John? Can you send me the procedure? Is it, open Lid, chuck, close lid? Thought so. :roll:

You gotta futtocks laugh eh? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

As I said though to each there own. There is no right or wrong way.do what you think fit.

Al' ..........
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PostPost by: nebogipfel » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:11 pm

types26/36 wrote::lol: :lol: :lol: Diggerdog....some people could described this post as a "load of FUTTOCKS" :lol: :lol:



I do :wink:

My everyday car is a banger. The only material thing I have of value is my Elan and I don't have that because I went out and bought a ready made car, I have it because I went out and bought the cheapest wreck I could find and then spent hundreds of hours of my time and quite a bit of my hard earned and very limited funds making it into what it is now.

I'm not going to apologise to anyone for wanting to look after it and keep it as good as I can, including my spinners and I would prefer not to hammer the hell out of them.

That said, I don't give a flying futtock what anyone else thinks :D

PS. Futtock is stolen from "Futtocks End" starring among others the late and brilliant Ronnie Barker
John

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PostPost by: mac5777 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:13 pm

A few photos of my mine. My hat is off to all of the other guys who developed a method to protect their cars from hammer damage. A hammer in the right hands could work but not in mine. Read the picture comments. And Diggerdog, thanks for stirring to pot. It keeps things active and you get high marks for amusement and humor.

Sarto
Attachments
DSC00023.JPG and
Swinging the hammer horizontally bounded off and hit the wheel well.
img116.gif
This is the suggested way in deep wheels. Many ears have been broken off trying to remove them "over tighten"
img116.gif (58.55 KiB) Viewed 1061 times
DSC00018.JPG and
This what my spinners looked like when I got my Elan. More dings on the undue side.
Last edited by mac5777 on Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Thu Aug 18, 2011 4:30 pm

Go on then,my twopenneth,it's amazing the size of socket you can pick up at the Army Surplus..

John :wink:
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Thu Aug 18, 2011 5:02 pm

Hi John, that truck wheel axle nut socket was the only thing I could fine in the beginning that had been cut out to fit our spinners. Be careful as the tips bend ( too thin) or have broken off and you could end up in the ground. One of the guys who was making them, doesn't any longer because of that problem. He use to dip them in a hot rubber coating that after time cut though the rubber and there was no way to have them recoated. See how they fit my Panasport wheels. If I push the tool all the way on, it would hit the and chip the paint. I see you have wrapped yours to protect the spinners and wheels --- good idea.

Sarto
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DSC00011_1.JPG and
It had to be held back to clear the Panasport/minilite wheels
DSC00008.JPG and
It touched the wheel and needed to be covered.
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