Lotus Elan

S2 with Odd Front Hubs and Bearings which is Correct?

PostPost by: lotusbaz » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:51 pm

Hello All,

I have just dismantled my front suspension oto replace the worn parts and have discovered that the front stub axles, bearings and hubs are different from near side to off side!

One stub axle is 25.4mm or 1ins diameter for the rear bearing and 15.85mm or 5/8ins for the front bearing.

The other stub axle is 27mm or 1 1/16ins for the rear bearing and 19.1mm or 3/4ins for the front bearing.

Obviously the hubs are different and the grease caps over the stub nuts are also different.

My question is, Which is correct? Any help would be appreciated and obviously I now need to find an upright, stub axle and hub!

Best Regards, Baz

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PostPost by: gjz30075 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:34 pm

I would check for accident repairs on either side. The side with the repairs would most likely have the 'wrong' stuff.


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PostPost by: RotoFlexible » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:25 pm

It's likely (I don't have the measurements to hand) that the smaller axle is correct, and the larger is from a +2 or Triumph GT6. I think (again, I don't have the facts in front of me) that the smaller axles are for bolt-on hubs while knock-on hubs use the larger axles. (Please tell me that you don't have bolt-on on one side and knock-on on the other...!)

A look at Brian Buckland's book will soon set things straight.
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PostPost by: lotusbaz » Mon Aug 15, 2011 9:10 pm

Hi,

Thanks for the comments. There is no sign of any accident damage whatsoever either to the chassis or body.
The wheels are bolt-on each side but i did notice that on the side with the larger bearings and hub the brake caliper had two washers fitted to the mounting bolts to adjust its position which seemed a little strange.

Best Regards, Baz

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PostPost by: Elan45 » Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:01 pm

The larger bearing side is from a Triumph GT6. This was a common "upgrade" done to Spitfires and bolt on wheel Elans, but usually done to both sides together. This is often done in conjunction with fitting the larger brakes from the GT6?/Elan+2, but I think the standard Elan calipers, in good condition are a better choice for the street.

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PostPost by: danielmo » Tue Aug 16, 2011 5:43 pm

If you have knock-off wheels, then the larger diameter spindle/upright/caliper/caliper mount are correct. Bolt on wheels would have had the smaller ones.
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PostPost by: nigelrbfurness » Tue Aug 16, 2011 6:07 pm

The larger ones may well be correct for an S2 with bolt on wheels. My S1 (3726) had the smaller diameter axle and smaller brake calipers - both identical with my Triumph Herald. My S2 (5538) that I had at the same time had the larger items and matched my (ex-)wife's Spitfire.

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PostPost by: paddy » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:33 pm

The smaller one is correct for bolt-on hubs, both for S1 and S2, and match the Herald/Spit.

The larger one was used on all knock-on hubs, and matches the ones for GT6/Vitesse.

I believe the stub axles on the Herald and Spit were all the same even though the caliper size changed.

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PostPost by: paddy » Sat Aug 20, 2011 12:33 pm

The smaller one is correct for bolt-on hubs, both for S1 and S2, and match the Herald/Spit.

The larger one was used on all knock-on hubs, and matches the ones for GT6/Vitesse.

I believe the stub axles on the Herald and Spit were all the same even though the caliper size changed.

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PostPost by: nigelrbfurness » Sun Aug 21, 2011 4:15 pm

Having owned Spitfires, Elans, Vitesses and Heralds I can tell you there were several different combination of steering arm, vertical link and stub axle used. Provided you have the right hub/axle/bearing combination most of them can probably be used on an Elan with bolt-on wheels, but the vertical link and steering arm for an Elan S1-4 appears only to match the early Herald. My S2 definitely had a larger stub axle than my S1. I would agree that the calipers are fully interchangeable.

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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 1:18 pm

I believe the smaller herald / spitfire stub axle correct for all bolt on hubs for all models - my S4 has them as it had bolt on hubs from new. The larger GT6 stub axles correct for all knock on hubs from first orginal introduction.

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PostPost by: nigelrbfurness » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:30 pm

Looking at all the posts, I suspect that "which is correct?" is a different question from the one I answered. However, it is quite a coincidence that my S2 also has larger stub axles than my S1. So I would guess that over the years a number of cars will have picked up different combinations that work owing to the availability of parts. As far as I can remember though, the GT6 vertical link is solid with the steering arm outside, unlike the Herald type which is correct for the Elan, which passes through the upright. So I guess the stub axles must fit all the different vertical links?

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PostPost by: paddy » Tue Aug 23, 2011 12:54 pm

There were two basic designs of upright, as you say. The earlier design, used initially on the early (drum brake) Herald, but then adapted to allow the use of disc brakes, has a separate caliper bracket, and the steering arm goes through the upright. This is the design used on the Elan and also the Mk 1 Spitfire.

The other type has the caliper lugs integral with the upright casting, and was used on all later Heralds and Spitfires. All of these cars, I believe, had the smaller stub axle.

The Vitesse and GT6, as well as having the fatter stub axle, also had larger discs and calipers, and therefore the caliper lugs need to be in a different position*. As far as I know, there was never an upright with the integral lugs for these cars - it was done using the early design with a different caliper bracket (but I'm happy to be proved wrong). So the uprights from these cars were the same basic design as the early Spit/Herald, but have a larger stub axle.

(*) The exception to this was the first Vitesse 1600 which had the smaller discs like the Herald, and the smaller caliper bracket (but still the bigger stub axle).

So I think the "correct" upright would be:

Elan/bolt-on: from drum brake Herald or Mk 1 Spit
Elan/knock on: from Vitesse/GT6

The upright with the integral lugs would I think still fit the Elan with bolt-on hubs but would be "incorrect".

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PostPost by: lotusbaz » Tue Aug 23, 2011 4:12 pm

Hi All,

Many thanks to everyone for their comments about my odd front hubs and bearings.

I guess the majority feel that as i have bolt on wheels then the smaller stub axle/bearings/hub combination is correct for my car. As the smaller stub axle that i have is worn then a couple of new stab axles and bearings are called for. All i have to do now is find a used upright and hub from a Herald. Incidentally the small stub axle that i have is stamped L02737 rather than a triumph number.

Again, many thanks for your help, Baz

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PostPost by: nigelrbfurness » Wed Aug 24, 2011 12:46 pm

Hi Baz
I have some Herald vertical links, hubs and axles if you are in the UK, pm me and perhaps we can do a deal, assuming I have the "correct" diameter stub axle amongst them lol.

Regards
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