Road holding and handling........

[mark030358]

Road holding and handling........ To me these are two different things and I'm not sure which (or both) an Elan has.
Anyway I'm not sure if my car wants to corner very well. The back end feels like it wants to slide at times (well most of the time) at anything more than moderate speeds. I tried blitzing round and round a roundabout yesterday to get a feel for the car and at one part of this roundabout the understeer was (every time at this point on the roundabout) to say the least "huge" and the car just went across the road. Never having driven another Elan, what should I expect? Should the back end tend to hang out? Another thing I've noticed is that sometimes I get a "twitchiness" on motorways, very unnerving, I've always put it down to "tram lining" due to ruts. Every thing is tight, all running gear is new, including new dunlop SP10 tyres, running 18psi front and 24psi rear, and my camber is fine, (but still have the front tracking to accuratley sort out)

Any thoughts ot comments. The car has only covered 857 miles since coming back to life.

cheers
Mark

from memory both my Europas cornered better.

[type26owner]

Mark,
Try 50 to 60psi if they are series 80 tires on 4.5" wide wheels. The Dunlops I bought here in the USA got tried for only about 200 hundred miles and removed from the car. They were way to dangerous for me to even consider taking to the edge of the traction circle.

[1964 S1]

I'd try putting 32 pounds per tire and see what happens, that's where I run my S1. 18 and 24psi seem very low. If you stay on the roundabout long enough and wind up an Elan I think you could peel the front tire off the rim at 18psi. I think the twitchiness is tire sidewall movement.

[berni29]

Hi There

This is not my specialised subject (and I have a plus 2), but I do like going round roundabouts If the back wants to come out it will produce oversteer which would be more normal than understeer. On a plus 2 with standard tyres of the type you mention most people (in my experience) use a maximum of 24psi, usually 22ish on the front and a tad higher on the back.

If the tracking is not right then you may well find that the car is twitchy.

Good luck

Berni

[1964 S1]

Mark, I agree, Europas corner "better" due to the mid engine configuration. Elans on the other hand can corner "quicker" because they're smaller and lighter. If I had 18 psi in a tire when I went out to drive I'd consider it almost flat, 22 psi, going flat. A question, psi is psi no matter what country we're in, right? I run 32 in my S1 and 34 in my +2, both cars feel "soft". ???

[rgh0]

The pressures you are running are much to low IMHO. How high you need to go you need to experiment to find but I would expect it to be well above 35 psi as a minimum with the tyres you are runing .

The Elan typically needs similar pressures front and rear and handles reasonably neutrally with both under and oversteer possible depending on corner entry speed and throttle application.

Elans are much more nervous and twitchy than a Europa. Quicker in slow tight corners due to this but slower in fast high speed sweepers.

Rohan

[M100]

Get your tracking sorted out first as it will make a huge difference to the feel of the car and contribute significantly to the nervous feel.

On normal 80 profile tyres I find pressures (for the road) of low to mid 20's work best in summertime UK, the back a couple of psi higher than the front. No idea what would be best when it's this cold!

[simonriley11]

Mark
Re tyre pressures, I found that after much experimentation using the 'high speed' tyre pressures in the owners handbook gave the best combination of ride and predictable handling on my Sprint and Plus 2.
Also if you haven't replaced the rear wishbone bushes it might be worth checking how 'soft' they are, replacing them on my Plus 2 significantly improved the rear end twitchiness.
Re tracking, in my experience it is vital that this is spot on. I have played with this particularly on my Plus 2 and the difference even 3mm on the toe in/out makes to the feel of the car is amazing. If it's of any value I eventually found that zero toe in felt the best

[Alasdair]

Are the donuts installed correctly? If not, makes the rear end do really funny things!

[miked]

Mark,

I have SP10 on my S4 and run at 21/25 in summer. This gives decent ride quality and pretty decent quick driving. If I go a bit quicker I lift by about 3 pounds and take the dampers up a tad. The cornering get better but the wife complains about the harsh ride. SP 10 at 80 profile do seem to squeal a bit and after all are not really an expensive trye. I have thought about dropping to 70 and better tyres. There is some good discusion if you dig back.

ps I started with Aqua jet and had to take them off because the walls were so soft. Really bad!

Mike

[gjz30075]

Mark, what's your toe specs? Any amount of toe-out will contribute to twitchiness. Good for the autocrossers but if you're not used to it...put it to stock specs.

I've also heard about rear hub mounting holes beat out due to age and that'll change the rear toe specs dynamically! Not a good feeling.

Greg Z
'72 Sprint

[type26owner]

Mark,
If those SP10s have stiffened sidewalls then your pressures are about right. None of the tire manufacturers make any effort to designate which tires have stiffeners though. The only way to tell is look at the weight of the tire and compare it to one of a similiar size. The ones which are about 7 pounds heavier have the sidewall inserts. Also you can tell by poking the sidewalls to see how stiff and thick they are while unmounted. If they are reinforced please let us know here.

Kinda of revealing to see a current F1 car drive to the pits on the stiff sidewalls of the shreaded tire since the tread peeled away completely. Paper thin sidewalls are a thing of the past.

Toe is to compensate for the strain the suspension undergoes while under braking. The idea is that it goes to zero under that highest load. With the distortion I inflict on my tires at speed I can't squat if the toe is off a little.

[steveww]

Just my 2p worth. I run my S4 on 155x80x13 tyres and use the high speed pressures from the owners manual. These offer a good ratio of comfort to handling. I find if I am a bit brutal with turn in the car understeers. Once in the turn, feeding the power in gives nice oversteer

Increase the pressures you are runnig at and have a 4 wheel alignment check done on the car. You have to remember that the Elan is an old car on thin high profile tyres, it will feel totally different to modern cars on rubber band tyres. For me that is the whole point of having the Elan; I have to drive it, no modern systems to help me out. I ultimately got bored with my modern Porsche because it was just too good.

[type26owner]

What makes it fun for me is the low inertia handling just like a sports racer has. I love taking it really deep in the braking zone and doing a Rick Mears snap turn-in and it have it not wallow over slowly and get sloppy. Sawing the steering wheel back and forth is not a quality I strive for in my tires. Nimbleness is always better for the driver's confidence.

It's challenging to do on such a narrow wheel base car. Dave Bean's stories of having it up on two wheels on many occasions has instilled some fear in me however....

[mark030358]

Gents,
Thanks for the many replies. I will increase the tyre pressure in a controlled manner to see what the changes are. Answers to replies are:-

All new bushes. Poly at the rear, rubber at the front.
Standard wall SP10's.
hubs etc fine.

Will get a 4 wheel alignment check done soon.

Any other recommendations for toe in front and rear. I can adjust camber via adjustable spring perches, any suggestions as to what produces the "best" stability?

cheers
Mark