Replace brake servo

PostPost by: b-havers » Wed Feb 16, 2011 2:55 pm

As summer (hopefully, still a lot of snow and many degrees below zero...) is approaching, it's time to prepare the cars for more use.

The Elan leaks brake fluid, and before I disconnected the vacum hose from the servo - also puffed lots of white brake fluid smoke.

So, as I guess the internals has been exposed to brake fluid for a long time, I see no other way but switch the old servo for a new.

But, where to get a new one, and will it be of correct internal dimension (ie; will it match the calipers and brake master)?
How much should I expect to pay for a new brake servo?

Thankful for thoughts and ideas, as we have no vendors for suche old parts here in Norway..

regards
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PostPost by: ardee_selby » Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:17 pm

FWIW, There are a couple of Lockheed units on ebay uk:

Item number: 370453431729 New - BUY-IT-NOW @ ?148.65

Item number: 260733306347 Used - Auction ending in 2.5 Hrs.

For reference see: (http://www.sjsportscars.co.uk/index.php?mod=10) who list both Lockheed & Girling on their site

or download list from Paul Matty, here: (http://www.paulmattysportscars.co.uk/parts.aspx)

Good Luck - rd
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PostPost by: rdssdi » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:22 pm

Lockheed servos are represented in UK by
Seltech Engineering Prod Ltd.
23 cross st
Leamington Spa, Warwickshire CV32 4PX UK

tel.
01926-428967

You could contact Seltech with any questions. I have dealt with Steve at SJ Sportscars and he has been most helpful and offers good service.

I have a U.S. federal version Elan +2 which has the dual circuit braking. I replaced my original Girling units with two Lockheed units. I had to locate one booster in the nose as the Lockheed boosters are somewhat larger and I found the placement of two on the left side fender quite impossible.

If your car has only one booster than it will make it simpler.
If you require a photo of the booster in the nose let me know and I will take a photo and send it to you. It did require a remote breather and a custom bracket made. Not at all difficult.
Bob
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100_0018.jpg and
booster as installed
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PostPost by: b-havers » Wed Feb 16, 2011 4:28 pm

Thanks for your replies.
Another question; are there any different types, ie are they working with the same pressure? Or is there an exact model I need to get hold on?

What are the main differences between Girling and Lockhead?

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PostPost by: CBUEB1771 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:44 pm

Bjorn-Anders,
The Girling servos were the original fitment but many people have used Lockheed in recent years when Girling service parts became unavailable. If you can get a Girling servo this would be preferable because you won't have to fabricate new brackets and remake hydraulic lines. Also keep in mind that the Elan and +2 use different servos, the difference being the servo gain. The +2 servo has a maximum gain of about 3:1 whereas the servo for the Elan has a maximum gain of about 2:1. The two are distinguishable by the diameter of the pressed metal housing for the actuating diaphragm. The +2 servo has the larger diameter diaphragm, hence the greater servo gain. If you buy through one of the standard suppliers of Lotus parts you should get the correct one. Rdssdi mentioned SJ Sportscars and this may be a good choice for you.
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PostPost by: b-havers » Wed Feb 16, 2011 6:53 pm

Great, thank you!
This made it muche clearer!

I've sent a mail to a couple of dealers, just to wait for the answer - and be ready to pay about the same amount in Norwegian tax as the servo itself costs in the UK...
Bjorn-Anders, Norway
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PostPost by: Galwaylotus » Wed Feb 16, 2011 7:14 pm

Another option is to remove the servos, replace the brake pads with "softer" ones such as GreenStuff and not have to worry about servo failure anymore. 8)
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PostPost by: Robbie693 » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:20 pm

Hi Bjorn,

The part number for the Lockheed Plus 2 servo should be LR 18221. It is an 8" diameter unit but I believe there is more than one 8" servo made by Lockheed and that the cylinders are different sizes.

I know this because I asked the same question a while ago, see here (Sean's post about half way down gives the part numbers):

http://www.lotuselan.net/forums/elan-plus-f13/servo-size-t14260.html

Hope this helps

Robbie
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PostPost by: gerrym » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:43 pm

Bjorn, the Elan Plus 2 (non federal) was fitted with a "high ratio" booster of about 3:1. A lot of the Lockheed boosters with the same body size only have a boost ratio of about 1:8.

However I would seriously consider the suggestion already made of deleting the booster(s) completely. Its possible to get high friction front pads and better disks (check out the Triumph specialists). Together with modern better tyres with high grip levels than what was available when new, will give the car a better front/rear brake bias. With your LHD setup, there's also a fairly easy swop to a tandem master cylinder (much more pratical without boosters). All this is in the archives if you hunt around.

You will end up with a more reliable braking system with better feel and modulation and probably higher ultimate braking performance.

Regards
Gerry
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PostPost by: oillite » Wed Feb 16, 2011 9:49 pm

I dont know if this company my be of use to you:- www.pastparts.co.uk
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:32 am

b-havers wrote:The Elan leaks brake fluid, and before I disconnected the vacuum hose from the servo - also puffed lots of white brake fluid smoke.

So, as I guess the internals has been exposed to brake fluid for a long time, I see no other way but switch the old servo for a new.



Bjorn-Anders et al:

Just fired my car up after sitting for ~3 months, and had clouds of white smoke out the tail pipe; seemed to be pretty steady. Shut the engine off before it warmed up as didn't know what it was or where to begin.

:?: Is this potentially indicative of brake fluid leaking to the inlet manifold thru the booster vacuum hose?
:?: Do I check by disconnecting the vacuum hose, start the engine, and see if it clears the smoke up?
:?: Given the car has only sat for a few months, would my booster(s) be shot if the smoke goes away with the vacuum line disconnected?

I have the dual booster Federal set-up with both boosters re-build professionally about three years ago, and no brake problems to date.

Thanks for any advice. Was kind of freaked out by the smoke and was thinking coolant issue; didn't think at all of brakes.

Diff and fuel tank are removed right now, so will have to check things out when back together in a few weeks if nothing will be getting damaged with the car sitting for a bit.
Stu
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PostPost by: Coupe » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:20 am

oillite wrote:I dont know if this company my be of use to you:- http://www.pastparts.co.uk


My servo off the Elan is at 'Past Parts' for a full recondition at the moment. I had hoped it would be ready for collection this week (quite local to Bury St Edmunds) but there is a delay with the firm who powder coats the casing - I chose black rather than original gold finish.
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PostPost by: peterako » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:43 pm

stugilmour wrote:Bjorn-Anders et al:

Just fired my car up after sitting for ~3 months, and had clouds of white smoke out the tail pipe; seemed to be pretty steady. Shut the engine off before it warmed up as didn't know what it was or where to begin.

....


Could be Stu.

But it could also just be moisture in the system boiling off.

You could try disconnecting the brake servo vacuum feed from the inlet manifold and see if there's and difference.

Is it warming up in Calgary yet?

Best of luck,
Peter
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PostPost by: gerrym » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:53 pm

Stu, your issues make me even more convinced that the best thing to do is to ditch the Brake Servos (two in your case).

Do you need a servo to comply with any vehicle inspection or insurance requirements? If not, best to look at this from a technical and practical perspective.

On the practical side of things, there are plenty of owners here that report good experience of moving to high friction front brake pads (maybe with upgraded discs). Greenstuff pads easy to get here but there are others if you need something more exotic. All this is pretty cheap and easily reversible and should you get a headrush in a few years time for "originality", could be converted back to spec.

I'm assuming during your restoration that you checked the fibreglass around the bulkhead area where the pedal box is mounted.

Regards
Gerry
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PostPost by: stugilmour » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:24 am

Couldn't agree more with Gerry above regarding ditching the servo's. I did not do it yet as they were working and I wanted to get on the road and inspected last summer, got a bit bogged down in the details on the previous threads regarding the exact parts to get, and was concerned more with timing to source required replacement parts. As the "Out of Province" inspection is now complete, appraisal done, the car plated and insured, and essentially drivable with about 1000 miles on the clock I am pretty much free to do whatever I want mod wise in our Province.

In order to perform the servo removal trick, could you please advise on the Master Cylinder diameter I should go for? I recall you got one that looked promising, but not sure how you found it worked out for you and if it was a dual unit? From the previous threads, I highlighted two options:

- Get my original dual master cylinder re-sleeved & re-built by White Post in the US to the recommended ID. All I need for this option is confirmation of the recommended ID to have it built to.

- Source a new dual M/C, hopefully with the correct SAE threaded ports, and wrestle it in to the pedal box and mod the brake lines as required. I also understand that the after-market M/C's typically have the outlet ports on the wrong side, so a bit of plumbing work is required? Hoping we have consensus on one that fits easily and is readily available on the 'net.

I have a good selection of brake line tools now from the re-built, so not too intimidated by the plumbing. For those not familiar with the Federal dual circuit system, it includes a warning valve mounted on the left inner fender that indicates if one of the circuits has lost fluid, so the new piping to the new master is very short and workable. Figure a couple of lines to by-pass the two boosters ans it's done. I think my current front pads are good; they came from Spyder during the re-build and are Green Stuff brand. If not correct, should be able to order replacements from someone in the 'States or GB.

Still hasn't warmed up here; presently 17 below Celsius with snow on the ground since November. Figure I have ~ two months of garage time to sort the brake piece and the new 3.55 diff (expected back next week if I got all the correct parts from GB!). Final big item is measuring the actual speedo cable turns per mile with the new MT75 - 175/70/13 tire - 3.55 diff combo and sending the Speedo off to a specialist in the 'States for a re-gear or conversion box. Everything else (other than really minor stuff) is now done! I am really hoping to go to LOG in Las Vegas or the British show in Vancouver this year, but would like these last items sorted first.

Bjorn-Anders, sorry for the minor hijack of your thread, but you may want to consider ditching the servo(s)? Lets see what the group says 'cus the winter is the time to do it and with the tax on your new servo it is definitely cheaper!
Stu
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