Lotus Elan

Canley classic vertical link (Btm ball joint)

PostPost by: miked » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:15 pm

Hi, I saw this a while ago and have seen some talk on here about it.

http://www.canleyclassics.com/?xhtml=xh ... roduct.xsl

I have a Plus 2 in need of 2 new links. Has anybody actually used these on an Elan or Plus 2? I like the idea, especially with the heavier car. I am not over convinced about the open joint.

Any feedback appreciated.

regards Mike
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PostPost by: gerrym » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:27 pm

Mike, there has been quite a bit of discussion here on the forum over the Canley Ball Joint versus the original trunnion.

My own view is that a trunnion needs to be dye-penetrant tested if it has had an unknown service life or lubrication was missed or of the wrong specification. Also quality of any new trunnion must be checked not assumed.

Other than that, I suggest trunnions are fit for purpose for the Plus 2 (same size trunnion as baby) unless substantial changes to tyres are made (trackday stickies and much wider profile).

Regards
Gerry

Not convinced that suspension kinematics are correct with the lower ball joint.
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PostPost by: billwill » Thu Nov 04, 2010 6:21 pm

>Not convinced that suspension kinematics are correct with the lower ball joint.

I always wondered about trunnions & thought that maybe the fact the the effective length of the upright changes as you turn the steering might be an essential factor in the handling characteristics. They have opposite handed threads on each side of the car so (though I never worked out which) EITHER the ride height increases on the OUTSIDE of your turning circle and decreases on the INSIDE of your turning circle, or VICE VERSA. Is this significant?

The advert page linked mentions lots of trouble with trunnions. Is this common? I never had much trouble with mine. It even mentions broken trunnions has anyone here had that happen?
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PostPost by: peterako » Fri Nov 05, 2010 9:02 am

Haven't 'broken' a trunnion but have had one pop.

Basically strip all the thread and pop off the bottom of the upright.

BUT....this was soon after I got my +2 and it was evident from the upright and the trunnnion that it may NEVER have been lubricated prior to my purchasing the car :shock:

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PostPost by: gerrym » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:38 pm

Peter, your reply is indicative of the possibility that the only significant advantage of the lower ball joint is much reduced maintenance. At least maintenance of the grease gun variety.

Bill, did you find my earlier post on vertical link trunnion thread failures. There were a few reported.

Regards
Gerry
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PostPost by: garyeanderson » Fri Nov 05, 2010 12:53 pm

more info from the search of "Canley classics"

http://www.lotuselan.net/cgi-bin/search ... oom_sort=0
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PostPost by: Peter +2 » Sat Nov 06, 2010 11:35 am

Hi,

I have had no experience with trunion failure with Elans?, but I did when I owned a Spitfire. Although I say trunion failure it was actually the upright that failed where it inserts into the trunion. Curiously it happened at low speed whilst on near full lock as I recall. My understanding is when they fail it is more likely to be during low speed manoeuvring rather that at high speed although I do not understand why.

I would certainly consider the Canley Classic approach.

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PostPost by: miked » Sun Nov 07, 2010 2:10 pm

Sorry for the delay. Thanks for all the input. I have ordered some new original ones from Canley. I have always used new ones on any car. I dont have big wide wheels either.

I did have a problem when I was 17 ( 1974) in a spitfire (Car). Usual script, parking (large loads) and a vertical link snapped and the wheel went out at the bottom. Had to be lifted away and be fixed by the garage who the police sent it to. Ouch! ????

That's why I am a bit paranoid. The night before I have been doing a good lick of speed. :shock:

The two I just took out of this plus two were well oiled (to late). They were wasted away beyond belief, near the top. Scary. I would not even use ones that exhibit pitting near the top curve.

So easy to look after! By the way, I notice they do the non drilled version at Canley (same price). I could have sworn I paid a strong money for the same thing from someone who said he had the specially made.


regards Mike :D
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PostPost by: gerrym » Mon Nov 08, 2010 3:59 pm

Mike, thanks for updating us on the outcome of your investigation.

Would you guess that the material loss happened before your ownership, due to infrequent lubrication or is it down to something else?

On the solid uprights, with no lubrication hole, do you know how one is supposed to get the grease or oil up the threads. I can only assume or guess that the trunnion would need to be dismantled (which requires removal of hub and disk). Or perhaps the brass trunnion would have a bottom fitted grease nipple?

Regards
Gerry
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PostPost by: miked » Mon Nov 08, 2010 4:14 pm

Hi Gerry,
Yes, I just bought this car and knew it needed some TLC. I was a bit shocked though when I saw the level of wasting on the top of the treaded portion. I can only assume they were sat with no lube and water around them.
Re: Solid ones, I have them on an S4FHC track car that I am building. Yes as you say, the idea is that you strip them on regular intervals to re-lube. Not meant for road duty (I would say).
Regards
Mike
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PostPost by: Peter +2 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:00 am

Mike,

How are you getting on with the Canley Classic vertical links?

I have just stripped the front suspension of my +2 and need two new Trunions (had to cut them off as the through bolts had seized) and at least one vertical upright. Decisions, decisions.....

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PostPost by: gerrym » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:11 pm

Peter, I'm going to silver braze a solid base to the brass trunnion, then thread that for a grease nipple (or plug). If that works, I'll fit solid vertical links (no hole for the grease port). Maybe I'll distort the trunnion by heating it?? Can but try.

See if works!!
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PostPost by: gerrym » Sun Dec 12, 2010 2:30 pm

Separate issue (to the trunnion threads)... Has anyone "improved" on the nylon bush and steel bolt that fastens the lower wishbone to the brass trunnion, and provide the horizotal pivot.

I'm thinking along the lines of a high strength corrosion resistant stud (eg F51 duplex) and say a bush machined from an acetals. Some of the acetals incorporate lubricant. Compared to the nylon the bush won't swell.

Regards
gerry
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PostPost by: Peter +2 » Sun Dec 12, 2010 5:51 pm

Gerry,

Your suggestion of fitting a grease nipple to the Trunion and using solid uprights must be flawed, it's to simple a solution to such an age old problem! Well done, it just goes to show it pays to think outside the box. Keep us posted as to how you get on as you just may have come up with an economic solution that retains originality.

BTW regarding the Trunion bolt/bush issue I am sure I saw an advert for urethane bushes which did away with the steel liner altogether.

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PostPost by: gerrym » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:19 pm

Peter, I agree with you that there must be a flaw. Think I'll keep going until I find it though!

Gerry
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