Lotus Elan

Adjustable rear control Arm

PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:13 am

....nearly there...
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 11:32 am

Details John? Or do you fancy making a 'kit' for each side? and passing them round? :roll: :lol:

What material for the r/h & l/h ' bobbin' (EN8??) what dia have you gone for? 1/2''unf?.. etc. Great if you could share the info. I have been looking at this for a wee while now. No need in doing it twice!

Well done! did you do the turning etc yourself?

Alex.....
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:01 pm

Got me a length of 1/2"hex steel EN**,chopped into 4 3/16" pieces,cut out 3 3/8" of A-frame
A bag full of 1/2" BSF LH and RH full nuts and a right and left hand 1/2" BSF die

Turned down half (in quantity and size) the full nuts to 3/4" to fit the A-frame bore, the other half (in number) being used for locknuts...

Don't know wether to glue :lol: .solder :lol: braze or weld the half nuts in the tube??

John :wink:

P.S.as I'm no engineer it wouldn't be fair of my to inflict my meddlings on other folk (elf and safety?)
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PostPost by: memini55 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:22 pm

Greg,

As said I am posting a couple photo's of the a-arm mods which we have done to our Elan.
I can get the Moog part numbers if you want and provide them for you also. Just let me know.

John

Your design looks to be and should work well!

Mark
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:41 pm

Hi All, John...

Braze or weld John. Rest looks ok. Loads on this component are either tension or compression (Mainly!)

To make the rh/lh 'bobbin', I thought about using two bolts rh & lh. At least 1/2'' dia, placing back to back after machining a groove / lip on the end of the hexes then welding them carefully (Tig or Mig) together, welding down into the machined area will allow removal of any excess weld, and restore the hex for adjusting.

Basically the same as you for the 'inserts' into the tubes. I.E. turn down nuts. 1 l/h & 1 r/h and assemble the 'bobbin' with locknuts etc and press the 'inserts into the cut tube ends.Then just weld the 'inserts into place. Bingo...

I will be doing this mod over the winter months.

Thanks for the info...

Mark.. This method worthy of investgation also. Please do provide the part numbers. I take it the threaded 'stubs' are welded into the tubes?

Again thanks for the info'.. Super interesting..

Alex....
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PostPost by: miked » Fri Oct 30, 2009 3:58 pm

For The, record Pat Thomas did these first from a commercial point of view. I had the first Spyder set from Andy. I am not a metal expert but have you ever put the hack saw throught the rear leg of the an A frame. I did when I was going to make my own and they spring apart. Already under tension. Quite a gap opened.

I ran for about 3 years with these and they were great. They allow you to keep your Poly or rubber bushes and have the correct toe in. You only adjust it once.

I dont disagree the rod ends and spherical are a better engineering job but toe out is not nice on the rear and I had that.

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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Fri Oct 30, 2009 6:24 pm

Alex

That was my first thought but couldn't obtain LH and RH 1/2" BSF etc bolts,hence 1/2" hex bar..

John :wink:
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 8:18 pm

I'll see if Mrs B can get the 1/2 dia setscrews. Thread detail would not matter. Fine whatever would do. They (the r/h - l/h threaded 'bobbins') would be a doddle to produce that way.

I went out today and test fitted two bolts, ends machined back to back in the lathe. In the chuck one side and a jacobs in the tailstock to keep alignment. Rotated the pair together and fired a mig weld all the way round. I have not ground off the excess weld but it looks well strong enough. I used plenty power for good penetration. Rotated the job with the machine in neutral motor running speed was good. Just right for the weld.

Looks like something bought out of a shop and it is still in the machine. It was too bloomin hot to touch and I did not want coolant on it. I am going to try and destroy the joint and see what happens 1st off. Any welders out there think this is not a good idea ? Any advice?

I have loads of 1'' dia EN8 bright bar left over from the karting days I might turn some of that into the bobbins. Leaving about 15-20 mm center section with flats machined on would be good (and cheap!). All that would be needed was dies and nuts to suit.

Oh no!! Here I go again... :shock:

Alex B.... 8)
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PostPost by: memini55 » Fri Oct 30, 2009 10:16 pm

Alex sounds like a fun day in the shop!

In case anyone wants to know stateside the parts I used to build the arms are as follows:
Parts Master ES2032S 2ea
Parts Master ES2033RL 2ea
Parts Master ES2034RL 2ea

If you wish to use Moog parts use the same part numbers but from Moog and pay twice the price.

Cost for the Parts Master for the package was about $60 and I could not turn on the lathe for that cost.

Good luck builders
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PostPost by: pauljones » Sat Oct 31, 2009 6:35 pm

Does anyone have a spare set of adjustable rear arms in good order that they want to sell? if so what price, PM or Email me please,Paul
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PostPost by: Galwaylotus » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:19 pm

alexblack13 wrote:I'll see if Mrs B can get the 1/2 dia setscrews. Thread detail would not matter. Fine whatever would do. They (the r/h - l/h threaded 'bobbins') would be a doddle to produce that way.

I went out today and test fitted two bolts, ends machined back to back in the lathe. In the chuck one side and a jacobs in the tailstock to keep alignment. Rotated the pair together and fired a mig weld all the way round. I have not ground off the excess weld but it looks well strong enough. I used plenty power for good penetration. Rotated the job with the machine in neutral motor running speed was good. Just right for the weld.

Looks like something bought out of a shop and it is still in the machine. It was too bloomin hot to touch and I did not want coolant on it. I am going to try and destroy the joint and see what happens 1st off. Any welders out there think this is not a good idea ? Any advice?

I have loads of 1'' dia EN8 bright bar left over from the karting days I might turn some of that into the bobbins. Leaving about 15-20 mm center section with flats machined on would be good (and cheap!). All that would be needed was dies and nuts to suit.

Oh no!! Here I go again... :shock:

Alex B.... 8)

This won't produce a left hand and right hand threaded piece but rather the same as a piece of right hand threaded bar with a hex in the middle. Is that what you were after? Seems like it would have been easier to gert a length of threaded rod, run two nuts up to the middle and jam them together. What am I missing?
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 10:56 pm

Hi Guys,
EERRMMM ?? :roll: :roll:

If I have 1 r/h threaded setscrew in one hand and a l/h threaded setscrew in the other How on earth does welding them together turn the l/h into a r/h??....

Unless I am missing something? I have not tried it with a r&L handed set yet but can't see how joining them back to back can change the laws of physics.

If I take two r/h setscrews and weld them back to back would that produce the required r/h & l/h job? I Don't think so.

I will give this a try just in case but can't for the life of me see why it would not work. I will test it next week and keep you all posted, but can't see why it's different to machining the piece.

Back soon !!

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PostPost by: gerrym » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:00 pm

Alex, McGill Motorsports has lots of hardware items, LH and RH, for making these adjustable wishbones. I posted a link on this same subject a few days ago.

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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:08 pm

Just read Gerry's post again. Could he be thinking I was just joining two std bolts together to try and get the rh / lh bobbin??

Err.. No. One of the pair WILL be L/hand thread. Unless I forget what I'm up to and join two the same... :lol: Don't laugh, I have done dafter things.

Just in case though I would refer Gerry to the post above where I tell John about joining a R & L handed pair of setscrews to produce the part.

Sorry for the confusion..

Hi Gerry,

I did not see the required part on the McGill site. Where is it? Can you point us to it? That would save buggering about to produce it.

Alex...... 8)
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Sat Oct 31, 2009 11:21 pm

Hi Gerry / All

I had another look Gerry. The inserts will certainly do the job but the parts I am trying to make are the LH/RH stud you mention above.

I will have a go with the setscrews 1st. Failing that I will machine up the parts.

Thanks...

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