Lotus Elan

Filing down front axle castellated nut

PostPost by: RichardS » Sun Jul 19, 2009 8:49 pm

I've got new front stub axles.

Was fitting the split pins this morning, having got the right position for the castellated nut to ensure the correct end float.

The only way to get the split pins through the stub axle was to file down the castellated nut to get enough clearance. Originally there were about 4 threads on the castellated nut up to the "indent" - after filing there are about 2 threads. The D washers are the original ones so would not explain the difference. Have fitted new bearings.

Have slightly overtightened before backing off the nut to ensure the bearings are bedded in.

Is it usual to have to do this to get the split pin in? Perhaps the holes in the new stub axle are a fraction different from the original. Any other explanation?

Thanks

Richard
Lotus Elan Sprint FHC 1973
User avatar
RichardS
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 407
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Location: Wirral, UK

PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Jul 20, 2009 4:19 am

Hi Richard

The bearing inner races may be tight on the stub axle and not sliding all the way on. I normally clean up the stub axle bearing seating surfaces with 1200 grit paper to ensure its smooth and check its OD versus the bearing ID to make sure they will go one OK and not jam.

A nut needs at least 3 full threads to generate the full strength the thread can carry - I would be a little worried if you only have 2 threads left.


cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7484
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: oldelanman » Mon Jul 20, 2009 10:06 am

Hi Richard,
My stub axles have two cross drillings for the split pin at right angles and offset about 2 threads - you can just about see it in the attached pic. (Excuse the poor quality as I've cropped it from a bigger pic.) Do your new ones have only one drilling ? Also if you have fitted new felt seals check they are the right way round and driven fully into the hub.
Regards,
Attachments
Front stub axle detail 001.JPG
Front stub axle detail 001.JPG (6.16 KiB) Viewed 1553 times
Roger
S4 DHC
oldelanman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1654
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Location: Dorset UK

PostPost by: RichardS » Mon Jul 20, 2009 1:08 pm

Thanks Roger and Rohan - I was not entirely happy so appreciate your advice. It sounds as though I need to investigate further. I have got the 2 different holes to try but it is still tight!.

Richard
Lotus Elan Sprint FHC 1973
User avatar
RichardS
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 407
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Location: Wirral, UK

PostPost by: garyeanderson » Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:29 pm

Hi Richard

Can you get the caliper mounted to see if the rotor is centered? if not then the bearings (or bearing races if they were replaced) may not be seated fully.

Gary
User avatar
garyeanderson
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3128
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Massachusetts, U.S.A.

PostPost by: rgh0 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:58 pm

good pickup on a simple diagnostic - i did not think of that

cheers
Rohan
User avatar
rgh0
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 7484
Joined: 22 Sep 2003
Location: Melbourne, Australia

PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:36 pm

rgh0 wrote:good pickup on a simple diagnostic - i did not think of that

cheers
Rohan


Its happens to me before, except I got the pin in. The bearing moved on the test run. I really like installing the cotter pin with the knock on hubs. Two threads on a 1/2 x 13 course thread is a fair distance, it should be able to be seen.

Gary
User avatar
garyeanderson
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3128
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Massachusetts, U.S.A.

PostPost by: RichardS » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:37 pm

garyeanderson wrote:Can you get the caliper mounted to see if the rotor is centered? if not then the bearings (or bearing races if they were replaced) may not be seated fully.


Gary - yes, the caliper is mounted and pads fitted and the disc seems to be centred but I will double check this when down at the car at the weekend [it lives in my mother's garage a few miles away!] I did put new bearings in - I guess I might not have seated them fully in but the situation is the same on both front axles so I would have been unlucky to have both not fully seated. . I think, for peace of mind, I will pull the hubs off and double check the bearings are fully seated and also check the felt seals [I did read several articles on the forum before fitting the felt seals so am pretty sure they went in correctly but ....!].

I did only overtighten the nut slightly to perhaps 6 or 7 lb foot on the torque wrench to try and ensure the bearings were seated - would anything more than this damage the bearings?

Or would it be acceptable to run the car for a few miles with the "2 threads" on the castellated nuts and see if things settle in? Or should I get the hubs off and double check?


Richard
Lotus Elan Sprint FHC 1973
User avatar
RichardS
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 407
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Location: Wirral, UK

PostPost by: paddy » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:54 pm

If the disc is centered in the caliper, there can't be a lot wrong with the seating of the bearings (at least the inboard one) or the felt seal. The tolerance can't be much more than a mm either way. As you say, it would also be surprising for both of the outboard bearing shells to be improperly seated by the same amount. If the problem is that the shell is seated correctly but the race hasn't gone all the way in, I think you would notice that the hub is wobbling all over the place.

I would not try to move the bearing in the hub by tightening the nut. If you fitted the bearing shells by tapping in with a drift, you usually get a distinct change in the sound as soon as the shell is seated fully, and it's pretty hard to miss. If you remove the hub and tap the shell all round with a drift you'll know if it is seated fully or not.

If the stub axles and bearings are both new, and the position of the castellated nut is very different from before, I think I'd suspect that one or other of them is the wrong part. Did you compare the old and new parts before fitting them?

Paddy
1963 Elan S1
User avatar
paddy
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1190
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Location: Woking, Surrey

PostPost by: RichardS » Wed Jul 22, 2009 8:00 pm

Paddy wrote:If the stub axles and bearings are both new, and the position of the castellated nut is very different from before, I think I'd suspect that one or other of them is the wrong part. Did you compare the old and new parts before fitting them?



No -I didn't compare the old stub axle with the new one but will dig out the old one and have a look. I'm sure I did tap the bearing race in a far as it would go. I bought the stub axle from Spyder so will give them a call. I must have filed the nut down by about 3mm so perhaps the stub axle holes are a little further out than originally.

Richard
Lotus Elan Sprint FHC 1973
User avatar
RichardS
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 407
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Location: Wirral, UK

PostPost by: sebring » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:06 am

i have exactly the same problem - having purchased new front suspension complete from TTR (hubs, s/axles, vertical links, bearings etc etc) it is impossible to fit the split pin without machining castellated nut or surface grind the washer - or a combination of both;
i guess the manufacturing tolerances between s/axles and vertical link are greater than originals thereby allowing the stub axle to seat further into vertical link, or it could be that 'quality controls' by manufacturers and/or suppliers are not as thorough as they should be. :shock:
sebring
First Gear
First Gear
 
Posts: 34
Joined: 23 May 2008

PostPost by: RichardS » Thu Jul 23, 2009 11:13 am

sebring wrote:i have exactly the same problem - having purchased new front suspension complete from TTR (hubs, s/axles, vertical links, bearings etc etc) it is impossible to fit the split pin without machining castellated nut or surface grind the washer - or a combination of both;
i guess the manufacturing tolerances between s/axles and vertical link are greater than originals thereby allowing the stub axle to seat further into vertical link, or it could be that 'quality controls' by manufacturers and/or suppliers are not as thorough as they should be


That is reassuring - I also have new vertical links. Useful idea on the washer - may allow a little less filing of the castellated nut.

Richard
Lotus Elan Sprint FHC 1973
User avatar
RichardS
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 407
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Location: Wirral, UK

PostPost by: elansprint » Thu Jul 23, 2009 7:16 pm

we have this problem on triumph stags we make a larger stub axle conversion with bigger bearings the axles are cnc machined & repeatable but there is a variation on the taper in the upright making end float difficult to set in some cases
Ian
elansprint
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 500
Joined: 12 Sep 2003

PostPost by: garyeanderson » Mon Oct 05, 2009 11:41 am

Hi Richard

Did you ever get this resolved to your satisfaction? Updates are always welcome as in the future when others look they can know what the problem is and whether they have the same issue.

Gary
User avatar
garyeanderson
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3128
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Massachusetts, U.S.A.

PostPost by: RichardS » Mon Oct 05, 2009 7:27 pm

garyeanderson wrote:Hi Richard

Did you ever get this resolved to your satisfaction? Updates are always welcome as in the future when others look they can know what the problem is and whether they have the same issue.

Gary


Hi Gary

Nothing further to report - I have just got the car back on the road and done a couple of hundred miles. I intend to recheck the front nuts soon and see if a few miles of road use might have have made any difference. Will report back in due course.

Richard
Lotus Elan Sprint FHC 1973
User avatar
RichardS
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 407
Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Location: Wirral, UK
Next

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests