Lotus Elan

S4 no servo

PostPost by: miked » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:13 am

I am going to no servo on my S4 before I (perhaps) go to plus two brakes. I have just picked up a 5/8 inch Master Cylinder (was 0.7). Does anybody know which are suitable high friction soft front pads (Non Servo type) that are avaiable in the UK. Only for road use.

I am told that Green Stuff has changed and is now too hard for no servo.

Interested in new old stock etc. Thoughts appreciated!

Mike :)
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PostPost by: steveww » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:54 am

Interesting as I am currently using Green Stuff on my no server +2 brakes S4. Still plenty of pad left though :)

If they have changed the formula I would also be interested to know what other pads are available.
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PostPost by: [email protected] » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:58 am

hi this is a nice easy one , i have raced my s4 at knockhill this year , and run the standard brakes, i removed the servo halfway through the season and found the brakes much improved, one thing i did do was to use the pads out of a +2 , yes the pads are bigger, so what i done was to put the s4 pad back to back and mark where i cut with hacksaw , and then drill new hole for the pad retaining pin to slide through, , the benifit you get is the area size of the pad it now covers the full size of the disc, with this easy convertion on a standard master cylinder, never ran out of brakes cheers del
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PostPost by: miked » Fri Dec 19, 2008 11:35 am

Steve,
I have been in Classicar Automotive and had a good natter, they are having a look for softer pad alternatives. I will post what they say. Good guys!

Del , Plus two pads sound interesting. I think I have some old ones in the garage. I will have look at this. Are your pads any particulr type or just bog standard?

Does anybody know if the S4 Elan calipers will take the same pads as the S1 Elan. I see some Truimph spitfire/Elan S1 pads as "cheap as chips" on ebay. I emailed but got no answer yet. Cheap not being the point but perhaps soft?:?

Mike :)
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PostPost by: neilsjuke » Fri Dec 19, 2008 2:49 pm

Sue Miller had some soft pads when I took the servo off my sprint . I did rebuild and refit the servo as I think it's better for general todays type stop and start road use to have the servo .
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PostPost by: paddy » Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:27 pm

miked wrote:Does anybody know if the S4 Elan calipers will take the same pads as the S1 Elan.


The S1 Elan had Type 12SP calipers, whereas the S4 had Type 14LF. The 12SP pads are different, and are about 1/8" shorter. I have heard people say that you can grind down the type 14 pads to go into a type 12 caliper quite easily, but they won't work the other way around. There's also less surface area on the pad, so the performance wouldn't be as good, even if you could.

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Last edited by paddy on Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPost by: ppnelan » Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:45 pm

:!: CAUTION :!: Before fitting 'cut-down' pads in place of smaller ones, PLEASE make sure the pad material does NOT overlap the edge of the disc. My car came with a set of cut-down pads (from the US in the days when original parts must have been hard/expensive to find!). The friction material overlapped the outside of the disc and had worn so that the overlapping parts met i.e. not much braking power since they were pushing against each other on one side... :shock:
This may explain the (badly repaired) front end accident damage... :wink:

:arrow: Matthew
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PostPost by: MintSprint » Fri Dec 19, 2008 5:18 pm

I took my servo off and fitted a 5/8" m/cylinder and Greenstuff pads supplied by Paul Matty about a month ago. The brakes now work much better than they did with the servo - I was very pleased with the results.

You might try Paul Matty to see if they still have any in stock.
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PostPost by: miked » Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:53 pm

Thanks for the information and advice guys. I will do some calls.

Re; the EBC Green stuff, do you know what the part numbers are. Do you still have the box?

Mike :)
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PostPost by: paddy » Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:29 pm

I ordered Greenstuff pads from powerstop.co.uk to fit type 14 LF caliper. My sales receipt shows:

Part number: DP2114

I don't know if this is an EBC part no or a powerstop number.

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PostPost by: MintSprint » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:31 pm

miked wrote:Re; the EBC Green stuff, do you know what the part numbers are. Do you still have the box?


Sorry for the slow response - i've been away from home for a couple of days doing the Christmas rounds!

Yes, I've still got the box. It's marked EBC DP2114 Ford Cortina/Escort Mk. 1/ Lotus Elan/Europa/Seven/Volvo 140/160/240/260 series.

Interestingly, it's also marked up with Paul Matty's parts code JPSF026C, which is listed in their catalogue as 'Front with Servo Greenstuff', although I specifically asked them for non-servo Greenstuff pads.

Whatever... they work just fine and I'm very pleased with them!
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PostPost by: worzel » Sun Dec 21, 2008 4:08 pm

Hi

Interesting comments since I still seem to be having problems with plus 2 fronts on a sprint. thinking about the two systems (std sprint and plus 2) the pedal travel surely must increase since the 0.7 m/cylinder I'm using now has to displace larger pistons. Fitting the smaller (5/8) one must make that "softer" pedal more pronounced.

One thing I have noticed is that EBC plus 2 front pads are definitely too hard for an unservoed system- I'm currently trying non servo spec pads for a Triumph GT6. As I've said before pads made years ago must have been a lot softer- the S4 I had in the mid 70's was unservoed and I never noticed the brakes- and switching to the sprint in 1978 I don't recall noticing them either so as my driving style didn't alter there couldn't have been much to choose between them for stopping efficiency.

Incidentally, my complaint about the non servo system are not my imagination- the recent MOT pointed out that the brakes were "marginal" and only just met the minimum requirements.

As I'm certain my system has no air present and the hoses are not ballooning I'm pretty sure the (relatively) poor braking is due to the pad material. Symptoms- best way I can describe them is that initial stopping from say 40-50 mph is ok but pressing harder is not translated into equivalent stopping ie the system is not progressive. Free travel of the pedal is fine and with all 4 wheels off the pstons at each corner are beginning to grab after only a small movement of the pedal.

Ideas still welcome on this one.

Regards

John
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PostPost by: MintSprint » Sun Dec 21, 2008 7:03 pm

worzel wrote:Interesting comments since I still seem to be having problems with plus 2 fronts on a sprint. thinking about the two systems (std sprint and plus 2) the pedal travel surely must increase since the 0.7 m/cylinder I'm using now has to displace larger pistons. Fitting the smaller (5/8") one must make that "softer" pedal more pronounced.


Pedal travel ceratinly increases in comparison to an unservoed car with a 0.7" master cylinder, but when you take into account the effect of the servo (which also creates a 'softer' pedal, remember), an unservo'd 5/8" master cylinder doesn't feel all that much different to a servo'd 0.7" one.

I did my conversion in 'stages'; first I changed the hydraulics and bled the system, but left the original (standard) pads in place. esult was very disappointing (similar pedal 'feel' in terms of softness/pedal travel as with the servo, but very high pedal pressures required to stop the car).

I was actually quite despondent at this stage, thinking I'd have to re-fit the servo. Then I changed to the 'Greenstuff' pads, which transformed the brakes. I can now lock the wheels up with less pedal effort and more predictability than I could with the previous (Lockheed) servo in place, and the pedal travel is approximately the same as with the servo.
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PostPost by: miked » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:40 pm

Been busy, sorry for slow response. Thanks for the information requested.

I have the servo out now, and the 5/8 inch M/C fitted. Did an intial bleed up. Old pads still in yet. Need to sort some new ones out. Working on it. Good to hear some success.

Mike :)
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PostPost by: elansprint71 » Sun Dec 21, 2008 8:51 pm

worzel wrote:Hi

Interesting comments since I still seem to be having problems with plus 2 fronts on a sprint.........

.........Ideas still welcome on this one.

Regards

John


Some while back I binned the servo on my Sprint, fitted +2 front stuff, with Classicar Automotive cheapo pads, rather than greenies. I read loads of "opinions" beforehand and, having thought it through, decided they were no more than that, I kept the original master cylinder (actually a new one of the same size). Works brilliant, as the football manager said.
If I were you, I would replace the original master cylinder and see how that is.
Just an opinion. :twisted:
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