Lotus Elan

knock on hub nut tool

PostPost by: rgh0 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 3:53 am

I understand that the Lotus alloy wheel spinners were different from the Lotus steel wheel spinners. I am not sure of the differences as I have never measured them both up to compare but perhaps you have steel wheel spinners on your alloy wheels and they are shorter with less than adequate clearance behind the ears to the alloywheel

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Rohan
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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:37 pm

I've been watching this thread with some interest as Minilites were due.

Collected them yesterday and with a little trepidation tried Sato's tool to see if there was any justification for concern.

The pictures below shows that the leather contacts the wheel and the steel is nowhere near.
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Minilite Sato tool fit 2.JPG and
Minilite Sato tool fit 1.JPG and
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PostPost by: seaandmoor » Sat Dec 20, 2008 5:17 pm

Yup, Minilites and Panasports there is no problem at all - I think largely due to the fact that there is a large (thick) thrust washer between the spinner and the wheel.
However, I don' t think the washer fits the original plus two alloys.
I'll have to check (as Rohan intimated) if there is any difference between my spinners and those on other cars.... I do believe that some on the forum are using Sarto's tool on original alloys without problem but I just need to find someone who isn't too far away from me.
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:09 pm

Brian, thanks for the pictures. Here in the States, panasports wheels are what most of us use. On my panasports style wheels they do not have that much space between the tool as the minilites.
My tool fits the steel wheels and both the panasports and minilites wheels. If anyone else has the Lotus alloys, check out the washer size and be careful when you are close to the full torque as not to touch your wheel. if it does I'll take it back.
The panasports are much closer to the knockoff tool but will not hit them. I found another early photo that demonstrates how critical the spacing is. Note that the two layers of leather in the bottom of the tool lifts the tool so close to the spinner's ear, there is no room for any protective material to survive the torque. Also notice how much of the tool's tip is behind the spinner's ear. A possible future tool design would have to be larger to grip the spinner's ear further out. But the cost to re-tool with new dies and cut out flat stock and bend into the correct shape is a trial and error process.
For you guys who like this stuff, here are some pics of the fun that I have had.

Sarto
Attachments
DSC00131_2.JPG and
This leather design left very little waste of the leather and covered all of the spinner's contact points.
DSC00006_2.JPG and
I even tried copper to protect the chrome. Too expensive but looked nice. Even the copper cut through under torque when not spaced right.
DSC00009_1.JPG and
Final version, cut from a single strip of leather in triangles. no waste and quick. Mike Ostrov gave me this plastic material, that worked but I like the vintage Old English Saddle leather best.
DSC00093.JPG and
An earlier generation, but still too much leather and work.
DSC00005.JPG and
This attempt used a full circle of leather and made cuts to be able to wrap the tool. Too much leather.
DSC00008_2.JPG and
Note that the two layers of leather in the bottom of the tool, lifts the tool so close to the spinner's ear, there is no room for any protective material to survive the torque.
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:26 am

A couple of photos of what the spinners look like on my car. Sorry for the poor quality but cropped from a general car shot i had.

cheers
Rohan
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Lotus alloy Spinner1.JPG and
Lotus alloy spinner 2.JPG and
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:34 am

Hi Rohan,
From your pics, they do look like they fit very close to the wheel. If my tool was larger or wider and gripped the ears of the spinners further out, that may give a little more space/clearance away from the wheels.
Thanks for the pictures.

Sarto
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:42 am

Sarto
My plus 2 is down at my beach house - I will be down there in a few days and will take some better photos and dimensional measurements.

cheers
Rohan
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PostPost by: seaandmoor » Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:00 am

Sarto,
be interesting to see what Rohan posts with measurements and pics. If you would like any other specific photos from me please let me know - be happy to provide them.

I think the suggestion that the tool grips the ears further out would greatly help to clear the spokes of the alloy wheel. Plus there would be less pressure on the leather to achieve the desired torque as an advantage.

I did try to get a set of 26R spinners (with the hollow centre and the ears angled out further from the front face of the wheel) as blanks so that I could get the thread machined for the plus two hubs. However, the work was outsourced to a guy in a workshop somewhere - TTR said to me he retired one day and silently left - no sign of him and no sign of his specialist machinery to make them - unless anyone knows any different?

Merry Christmas,
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Sun Dec 28, 2008 12:04 am

Seaandmoor, I hope you have had a Merry Christmas. The thought occurred to me that Ian and Richard's "spinitoff tool" might have the width to grip the spinner's ears further out and might miss your Alloy wheels. Ask them to measure how far out their tool grips the ears. Then you can compare it with my tool's gripping points. We may get you off the HAMMER yet.

After that, if you like, send me what you paid plus shipping and I'll reimburse you. If you can ship it to Susan Miller, I'll cover that charge too.

Have a Happy New Year!! Sarto
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PostPost by: miked » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:23 pm

My Sarto tool arrived the other day. I just slackened the wheels with the old method and then torqued them up with the new tool and a torque wrench. I must say I am very impressed. Nice and snug and secure. Not crapping yourself about slipping off. Good Tool Sarto :D

On the down side my tool was selected by Parcelforce customs and I had to pay ?30.54 (VAT and Parcelforce release fee) and go to Liverpool to pick it up. Was told, I was unlucky and a random activity. :x I have emailed customs but got knocked back to an always engaged phone number. Anybody else suffered from this when ordering kit from the states or is this usual from anywhere when entering the country.

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PostPost by: bcmc33 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:37 pm

You will never get through to the C&E by phone, but wait about 6/8 weeks and they will reply to an e-mail.

The "secret" is to get the sender to put a maximum value on the customs declaration to the equivalent of 20 Pounds or less for something that is not breakable. Anything sent in from outside Europe will always come under the scrutiny of C&E. There is a minimum limit to their interest for the collection of VAT - from my experience they will not charge for VAT less than 5 Pounds.
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:41 pm

That is not a problem with this sender. Never fully understood the tax/custom system there. I have sent xmas gifts to other places but I lose the insurance value. I have not ever had one lost in shipping -so far--
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PostPost by: alexblack13 » Fri Jan 09, 2009 3:11 pm

I bit the bullit and bought Sarto's tool from David (did not suit his wheel type) I have to report a complete success. Perfect for st'd Elan wheel. My little car now has its new trims and hub nuts fitted and is now completed. It looks just stunning.

I will take some pics asap (awaiting less salty roads!) and post a few.

Thanks Sarto. Bang on. :D

Alex B.... 8)
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PostPost by: rgh0 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:44 am

Some pictures and measurements of the Lotus original Plus 2S 130 alloy wheels and spinners.


Face of spinner to face to steel seat in wheel = 30mm
Space between ear and face of wheel at base = 10mm
( note this is on the ear before the radius into the spinner hub)
Space between ear and face of wheel at tip = 18mm

You can see all the dings on the wheels from 35 years of lead hammer use!!!!!

cheers
Rohan
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DSC_1779s.JPG and
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PostPost by: mac5777 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:20 am

Rohan, thanks for the measurements and photos. I measured the out side diameter of my tool and it is 4 1/2 inches (only have a US tape measure) and 3/16 thick tool metal.
With your measurements and Seaandmoor's ground down tips picture I may be able to determine the space needed to clear the 10 spoke alloy wheels in the worst case as in Seaandmoor's wheels.
If anyone lives near Northern California with Alloy type +2 wheels, I would like to see how my 3 eared knockoff spinner tool fits.
I will follow up with the results.

Thanks everyone!! Sarto
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