Poly Bush Installation On Rear (outer) A Arms

PostPost by: berni29 » Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:31 pm

Hi

The car was not designed for that sort of rubber thats all. I like the handling to be as originally intended. Its one of the attractions of the car for me. Wider stickier rubber for me would have meant that I would have been travelling at a higher velocity when I crashed thats all. The higher the limit the higher you push. Not all the time of course, but just occasionally, and on the "right" roads.

I used to have a Porsche Carerra 4 with a trick suspension. During a driving holiday to Scotland with a friend who had a F355 I was driving at silly speeds because the car would do it. When I got back I realised that it was not the car for me so I sold it. I have more fun with less danger in the plus 2.

I have a relative with an Audi S3 (4 wheel drive thing). He has spent a fortune on it and had it dyno tested at over 300bhp. He drives well and goes on lots of track days with it, but when we go driving in Wales he scares the life out of me. It can reach phenomenal speeds on really short stretches of road. Not for me anymore.

So as far as I am concerned stickier tyres are not safer at all. I have heard it said that no safety belts and a spike sticking out of the steering wheel is the best safety arrangement of all.

Berni
Zetec+ 2 under const, also 130S. And another 130S for complete restoration. Previously Racing green +2s with green tints. Yellow +2 and a couple of others, all missed. Great to be back 04/11/2021 although its all starting to get a bit out of control.
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PostPost by: patrics » Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:55 am

Hi Berni,
You are right, bigger tyres don't make things better, the road holding might be higher but the handling will be worse which after all is what the Elan is all about.
Regards
Steve
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PostPost by: steveww » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:58 am

Strange you should mention the Porsche thing. I had a sucession of fast modern cars ending up with a Porsche 911 (964) RS with all the trick bits and 315bhp. Certainly was very fast and had amazing grip. In the end I got bored with. It just became an exercise in frustration. On the public road you could never get anywhere near its full potential. Thus I was left with track days and finding the time to do those. Of course I sold it and bought the Elan S4.

I find the Elan so much more fun and the performance is such that you can have a blast on the public road with out the need to be going over 130mph for it to feel fast. The Elan has enough go to see off the hot hatch boys but still feels fast at 70mph. Then there is the joy of drifting it round the bends :D

It is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow B)
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PostPost by: type26owner » Fri Feb 18, 2005 2:33 pm

Well guys, I'm glad you're all happy with the totally junk, stone hard tires that are out there and we are all stuck with for our cars for the most part. I've run all those brands of All-Season Touring tires and found they degraded the performance of the car so much as to make the car unsafe to drive in traffic. The braking and cornering is reduced to the point that my only means of protecting myself from being crushed by an idiot in a SUV is to be able to nimbly manuever like a racecar would greatly diminish that possibility. Bad to always have that feeling while Lotusing you have a greatly reduced chance for self preservation.

Here's my understanding of the current meaning of 'performance tire'. The 'sticky' racing tires are currently in the ultra-high performance category. A performance rating alone means it's a mid-range tire that does not do anything the best but is a really good all-round type tire. There only is one choice of a performance grade tire available for our cars and that's the one Kiyoshi found; the Bridgestone RE92*. It needs an asterisk because the grip level is reduced a lot on a wet road. This tire kicks all the Touring tires butts. Best part is it costs only $41 from the Tirerack. My wife won't totally flip out if I burn up a set of these on the racetrack for that kinda money. :D

IMHO, the pneumatic trail of the RE92 perfectly compliments the mechanical trail that Colin built into the early Elans. Terrific steering feedback for the driver which makes for easy high speed handling and very comfortable for the 7 degree of castor flavor of suspension. The sidewall stiffeners help a bunch too.
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PostPost by: berni29 » Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:37 pm

Hi There

A friend of mine picked up a plus 2s yesterday. I had a look at it today, and apart from the timing chain tensioner being all the way in (the engine is supposedly fully rebuilt by QED and the prev owner said that maybe it was a 7/11 block and that they have less adjustment) I noticed how soft the tyres were. They are new uniroyals of some sort. They must be a size too wide because they are almost touching the springs on the inside at the back. I will have a better look over the weekend when I help him fix the brakes. He lost them completely driving it back!!

Thank you for the Bridgestone suggestion. I will take a look. I guess that they are available in the correct size?

SUV's I hate those things too. They are mostly driven (badly) by women shorter than 5ft 1" who cann only just see over the wheel.

Berni
Zetec+ 2 under const, also 130S. And another 130S for complete restoration. Previously Racing green +2s with green tints. Yellow +2 and a couple of others, all missed. Great to be back 04/11/2021 although its all starting to get a bit out of control.
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PostPost by: berni29 » Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:52 pm

Hi

Apologies, you said that they are available for our cars, so they must be in the right sizes!

Berni
Zetec+ 2 under const, also 130S. And another 130S for complete restoration. Previously Racing green +2s with green tints. Yellow +2 and a couple of others, all missed. Great to be back 04/11/2021 although its all starting to get a bit out of control.
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PostPost by: type26owner » Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:47 pm

Berni,
No apology required. You have brought up a point though which I cannot supply the answer. They fit on my S2 with the updated 2.5" diameter rear springs. They might not fit if you've still have the original rear springs still on your car.

They are a bit smaller in diameter then the original size intended for the car. The positive attributes far out weigh the negative ones however. If this tire did not exist I'm fairly certain I would just get rid of the car.
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PostPost by: mark030358 » Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:06 pm

Gents,
Decided that these poly bushes are cr@p. Tried to fit the outer arm bushes, what a pain. The dimensions are not constant and when fitted, the poly elongates and makes the poly longer than the stainless tube. So, when bolted up the whole lot will lock solid. The only way to rectify this problem as I see it is to trim the smaller diameter end with a stanley knife. Any thoughts on this or just go for plain old rubber as suggested earlier.

cheers
MArk

ps miked, will call you tomorrow. I think your son went to school with mine.
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PostPost by: miked » Tue Feb 22, 2005 2:57 pm

Mark,

I would go the extra milege with the supplier. Mine fitted ok after the bits I mentioned.

Keith,

I have been away working, so not got back about the Poly bush discussion. I am not ready to give up on them yet. I have not covered any mileage yet. Also the crush tubes do have a rifle bore groove to try and retain some lube between them and the poly. I have emialed the web site info' you posted to the manufacturer that supplied mine. I want to see the full technical response from them.

Initial verbal response was that cars with complex suspension and many bushes have had problemss with accumulative friction.
Unlike you, I am not a mechanical engineer (an electrical bod) but am mistified how an entire industry can market a product with problems. Is it maybe the case that with the Elan and plus two the leverage/friction/weight on these points is not an issue if the correct grade of Poly (better qulaity) is used with a good installation. I spent may hours ensuring that I did not bind anything. Even had new bottom bones. You probably read about the bush tubes diameter I posted earlier.
Without some more info' I am not yet convinced that you are completely correct in this case. Plus these cost a lot to fit so I am not trashing them until more convinced. Not being smart just need some more evidence.

regards Mike
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PostPost by: type26owner » Tue Feb 22, 2005 3:42 pm

Mike,
Since you 'believe' can I interest you Q-Ray bracelet thingie also. :P Just because it's for sale does not mean it's beneficial. Many businesses knowingly sell junk.

BTW, I'm not an engineer either. You don't have to be an engineer to be knowledgeable. What counts most is your experience.
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PostPost by: miked » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:06 pm

Keith,

I agree with experience. However, automotive guys to my mind usually have more credibilty than to market junk.
My old boss always says get some scale and numbers and dont judge on a few anecdotal incidents.

Mike
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PostPost by: type26owner » Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:25 pm

Is that a fact? I watched a Lotus Parts Vendor knowingly place defective Knock Off wheel nuts back on their shelf to sell after I showed them first-hand they were dangerous. I was appalled at the time but got over it. It's their business ethics, not mine. I'm bored with this subject now.
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