Std tyres on a Plus2 - in France?

[HCA]

Before the scenario, it should be known that in France, tyre sizes are regulated to those homologated with the car, ie one can only legally fit the size stated. (Ithink this applies in many Eu countries but not necessarily in the UK)

Yesterday I fronted up with my five standard +2 wheels at a well known tyre fitting outfit and asked for them all to be shod with 165.80R13 Falcon Sincera tyres that I knew they had in stock.

Went back today and job not done! Wrong size they say. No I say, they are correct. No they say. should be 165/13. Same thing I say. No, they say, totally different!

Sales chappie, a nice guy, pulls me outside and said quietly to return with two wheels at a time and say they are for a traier, the 165.80s can be fitted..!

Not being well up on tyre sizes, I came home and checked here on the forum and other places, and yes specification is 165/13. These have an aspect of 82% - pretty darned close to 165.80 if you ask me Then I checked online for 165/13. Oh yes, they are still made. At 210€ a pop A thousand euros to shod the car? I can get a big chunk of my five speed box for that

I have a mail into my insurance company asking if I can modify the car with a 2% difference in tyre aspect! Now, my question - has anyone else in France, or Europe, encountered a refusal to fit 165.80s to a Plus2??

[elansprint]

Not had a problem in the UK
Ian

[elanfan1]

Jump on the ferry or Eurostar, it’ll probably save you money overall.

[Frogelan]

I have lived in France for over 30 years and I have never heard of a tyre fitting firm bringing this up.

I have driven all sorts of classic cars with different variations on the road according to different conditions without any difficulties (MGB Avon CR6 ZZ / Dunlop 204 M section), Mini Cooper S (with different tyres for snow and ice). I have been stopped...mainly to have a look at the car.

Just change your garagiste! Might I suggest you opt for a set of Michelins (XAS ?) if you wish to be PC and should you ever have a discussion with la maréchaussée they will prefer this to what sounds suspiciously like remoulds!

[gherlt]

No experience with +2, but in Germany I remember the TÜV/MOT discussion is more about the circumference and the width in absolute terms, not about side wall ratio.

[HCA]

It is the same in France, but the sidewall ratio will ultimately affect the circumference.

Popped into my local test centre this morning as I saw three testers waiting for business, all of whom were not the least bit interested in the Plus2 in favour of crawling all over the Evora! When I did get their attention, they looked up on their database and sure enough the manufavturer specification is 165/13 as that was how tyres were specd in those days. They all agreed though that there are enough notes around that puts these the same as 165/80/13 and they would be accepted, and said I would be very unlucky if I found a tester who would fail them. I would be failed if I went above 80 as the circumference would be greater ergo the speedometer would read incorrectly.

Frogelan, it has all become much tighter now after they overhauled the CT game a few years back. Now they are very strict on tyres matching exactly, speedometers reading correctly and body modifications. They do not mind engine modifications providing it is not a carburant change, ie diesl to petrol. (As to Michelin XAS - these are the ones that are 210€ a pop!!)

Now of to a proper tyre fitter

[Frogelan]

I think your local Contrôle Technique is being unnecessarily over zealous for a voiture ancienne.

The new rules have 16 checking points on tyres but there are areas left to the initiative of the tester. The purpose of the test is road safety and I would plead everyday in favour of a period correct Michelin than a no-name trailer tyre even if it say 185/70.

UK MoTs in Europe

What we have yet to see is how European police forces react when they discover UK registered classic cars without MoTs involved an accident. My advice to Brits would be to make sure that they have a valid UK MoT so that the UK insurers do not hang you out to dry or get an undertaking in writing from the Insurer (not from the broker).

I did consider suggestion the excellent Avon CR6 ZZs but these do not have E markings and indeed this is could be a major headache to come.

Andrew

[HCA]

Bear in mind I am right in the middle of wurzel gummage country here - I bet you would not find three CT testers idle in any of the large suburbs on a saturady morning so, yes, they will have the time to be picky! Best to play their game as I need them more than they need me

UK MoTs. Indeed, a problem that will only get bigger. I have heard that someone brought a UK car in recently and ANTS would not accept the UK MoT certificate...

[Frogelan]

The rules on registration are very clear. ANTS require a local CT certificate.

This point has nothing to do with the all of the brexit problems as when I imported a recent Z4 from Germany I needed to get the CT done.

The point I have been trying to get across is that although the rules are stricter, it would be worth communicating on subjects such as the tyres before doing the test.

According to previous posts, Douglas Cawley of Longstone recommends the XAS. Perhaps you can find either the G800 (indicated in the DSJ review of the Elan in 1965) or the Pirelli CN36.

[HCA]

Did you import your Z4 recently? Because EU now recognises local member State MoTs - if your Z4 had a German MoT (I think it has to be quite a recent test) it should be accepted. I believe the UK MoT is no longer accepted due to brexit. I brought my +2 into France last Feb with a Jan UK MoT that ANTS were quite happy with as it was in the transition period...

[lomh 13]

In France it as been stated in 2020 that you can modify the aspect from -3% to +3%
https://www.tnpf.fr/wp-content/uploads/ ... T-2020.pdf

[elated]

In fairness the tyre place was only trying to save you grief at the next CT (though its ignorance of "unmarked" tyre profiles is surprising).
Like the Germans, the French testers are quite hot on tyres though normally sensibly so:
Tread depth & rubber cracking - obviously justified.
Size - only those originally stipulated by the manufacturer.
Style - M&S, Winter, Summer etc must not be mixed.
Makers - must be the same across each axle (though do not need to be exactly the same model).
Gordon

[Donels]

I think you will find that all 80 profile tyres are actually 82 profile and always have been, even though it says 80. So the tyres you’re asking for are the same tyres that are being offered at 165/13.

[Lotus 50]

What is a 6.4SR13 in today’s sizing. Vredestein sprint classics come in that size

[stugilmour]

What is a 6.4SR13 in today’s sizing. Vredestein sprint classics come in that size

My guess is 165/80R13 or 165R13, the stock Plus 2 size. 165 mm = 6.49”. I really liked the Vredestein, but unfortunately not available in NA right now.