Fitting Magard type Weber linkage to S3 Elan?

[ttaunton]

Does anyone have any experience of the Magard throttle linkage system? Originally popular and available in the 60's and 70's but now made by Sytec and available from various suppliers from £60 upwards. Looks to be well made, but as far as Elans go, the throttle cables lead off forward, so would need to be lead back under the carbs, past the distributor and then through the bulkhead. Be interested to hear from anyone with any info.

[TBG]

Tried them years ago and returned them. Heavy, overcomplicated and could not close the bonnet!! Other than that fine!! D

This is my home made one that works very smoothly and costs almost nothing to make.

[elans3]

The Magard type linkage is / was an excellent linkage, and still is one of the very best solutions., but not on the Elan unfortunately because of bonnet closure issues.
You can't really beat the original system, as long as you're keeping the original backplate & airbox, but if you're switching to a different air filter set-up, you could either make something like TBG has, or try one of Sytec's fabricated linkages, which is pretty flat with the top of the carbs.Trouble is, it's not a pretty solution...
Any linkage that protrudes from the top of the carbs more than a few mm will give you bonnet clearance problems.
Here's a Sytec fabricated type, from new they come either black painted, or zinc plated.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234264941957 ... SwkRNhfohi

[661]

They can be made to work and are robust.
You can just about make out the front post has be ground down by about 5mm on the upper corner to avoid the bonnet. I also machined off about 2 mm from both plates to allow them to sit lower.
I altered the pivot point to enable less cable travel to open the carbs fully.
I have also now cable tied the cable sleeves ( and the carb wing nuts- don't ask)
The TTR one is an alternative. I have a new one in a box......

[TBG]

Gosh Graeme - that is a tidy engine room! I do not think that several yards of throttle cable very elegant though and when they start to bind they are the very devil to lubricate. I notice that you use that simply excellent aluminium "bubble wrap" at the rear of the compartment for insulation - it works so very well and has stopped my wife's feet from roasting as I have put quite a bit of it about. I am very envious of your remote hydraulic reservoirs - I have always wanted to do that but after 36 years it is probably a bit late and would involve a fair bit of work - engine out and all that malarkey.! D

[ttaunton]

What a beautiful engine compartment! That must have been a lot of work. Where's all the electrics gone? And the coil? I have a milling machine so I can "adjust" things without too much trouble. What cable did you you use for the throttle? Something low friction I assume? Looking at a picture of the Magard, it looks as if you have milled quite a lot off the front bit that anchors the throttle cables on yours and maybe re-drilled them to lower the cables? Difficult to tell!

[661]

What a beautiful engine compartment! That must have been a lot of work. Where's all the electrics gone? And the coil? I have a milling machine so I can "adjust" things without too much trouble. What cable did you you use for the throttle? Something low friction I assume? Looking at a picture of the Magard, it looks as if you have milled quite a lot off the front bit that anchors the throttle cables on yours and maybe re-drilled them to lower the cables? Difficult to tell!

yes, much alteration, including aluminium welding an extension on to the back spring post to bring that forward a fraction.
The coil is on the back wall of the bulkhead

[Andy8421]

What a beautiful engine compartment! That must have been a lot of work. Where's all the electrics gone? And the coil? I have a milling machine so I can "adjust" things without too much trouble. What cable did you you use for the throttle? Something low friction I assume? Looking at a picture of the Magard, it looks as if you have milled quite a lot off the front bit that anchors the throttle cables on yours and maybe re-drilled them to lower the cables? Difficult to tell!

yes, much alteration, including aluminium welding an extension on to the back spring post to bring that forward a fraction.
The coil is on the back wall of the bulkhead

Graeme,

The engine compartment looks great, but what's the thinking behind dual cables? (In the spirit of full disclosure, I did fit TTR dual cables to the Elan I race(d) without really thinking about why).

I have googled, and the best I can find is that Ford had a lead footed Rally Escort driver, who on forest stages would stamp so hard on the throttle that he would cause the cable to break. It sounds like an old wives tale to me, but I haven't been able to find anything else.

The original design is a case study of 'simplify and add lightness'. When I finally get around to restoring my road Elan, I intend to go back to the standard design.

Andy.

[elans3]

The two cables "thing" came about in the late 60's when it became a requirement in Rally (and presumably Race) regulations to have a minimum of two throttle return springs, in case one broke. Whilst I can't remember ever seeing a regulation requiring two throttle cables, I guess manufacturers took the opportunity to make a bit more money and they all started making "twin cable" throttle linkages. Obviously a good thing if you have a cable break during competion.
I remember vividly scrutineers only seeing one return spring on my rally cars and trying to pick me up on it. They weren't aware of the two internal return springs in a pair of Weber DCOE's. Several times I had to disconnect the exterior spring, start the car & rev it, to prove the point.

[661]

What a beautiful engine compartment! That must have been a lot of work. Where's all the electrics gone? And the coil? I have a milling machine so I can "adjust" things without too much trouble. What cable did you you use for the throttle? Something low friction I assume? Looking at a picture of the Magard, it looks as if you have milled quite a lot off the front bit that anchors the throttle cables on yours and maybe re-drilled them to lower the cables? Difficult to tell!

yes, much alteration, including aluminium welding an extension on to the back spring post to bring that forward a fraction.
The coil is on the back wall of the bulkhead

Graeme,

The engine compartment looks great, but what's the thinking behind dual cables? (In the spirit of full disclosure, I did fit TTR dual cables to the Elan I race(d) without really thinking about why).

I have googled, and the best I can find is that Ford had a lead footed Rally Escort driver, who on forest stages would stamp so hard on the throttle that he would cause the cable to break. It sounds like an old wives tale to me, but I haven't been able to find anything else.

The original design is a case study of 'simplify and add lightness'. When I finally get around to restoring my road Elan, I intend to go back to the standard design.

Andy.

Unsure where the 2 throttles came from. Like a lot of things in the build, you look at what others have done, especially successful cars , and copy them. They've all used 2 cables. You've got to assume someone's had a failure at some point on a single throttle cable.
2 additional return springs are required by the FIA, as pointed out.

[TBG]

"You've got to assume someone's had a failure at some point on a single throttle cable."

I did, getting over excited at Castle Combe! Pulled the nipple off the end of the cable - easily sorted by adjusting so that full throttle does not mean overtight cable. D

[Rob1n]

Having experienced a throttle cable breakage when overtaking I would fit a twin cable if possible

[Bigbaldybloke]

I went through that process with my Plus 2 and decided that a new throttle cable with the travel stops correctly set was unlikely to break until it had seen a lot of service so settled on looking at single cable options. I eventually went for the Mangoletsi linkage and it fits under the bonnet and operates very smoothly, but it’s not the prettiest thing in the world. The cars not back on the road yet but just trying it in the garage it seems very nice and smooth and progressive. It’s available for single or twin cable operation.

[Bigbaldybloke]

Just to give a bit of history on the Maguard throttle linkage, I used to know the people who set up the company and they were into rallying and suffered broken cables on their rally car and hence came up with that design and others saw it and wanted it so they started to manufacture and market it along with other performance equipment.