Lotus Elan

Renew Fuel pipe

PostPost by: stuartgb100 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 6:53 pm

Hi,

Any problems with renewing the fuel pipe running from the tank up to the fuel pump,
bearing in mind nothing more than axle stands, trolley jack etc available, please ?

Regards,
Stuart.
stuartgb100
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 901
Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Location: Cambridge UK

PostPost by: twincamman » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:35 pm

if its like my car the NYLON hose runs down the center of the chassis tunnel attached by 2 plastic loops and out the front to the pump -----no need to get out and under at all --ed
dont close your eyes --you will miss the crash
User avatar
twincamman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2953
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Location: Niagara falls [slowly I turned]

PostPost by: oldelanman » Wed Sep 01, 2010 7:56 pm

Hi Stuart,
In theory you can pull the new tube through with the old one but I suspect that the clips Ed refered to will prevent you doing that. They are both accessible...just....the front one from under the car just up behind the starter and the rear one through the large access grommet in the side of the tunnel. Sorry about poor pics but I've cropped them from larger views.

Regards,
Attachments
Fuel pipe front clip.JPG and
Fuel pipe clip rear.JPG and
Roger
S4 DHC
oldelanman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1676
Joined: 02 Jan 2008
Location: Dorset UK

PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Sep 01, 2010 8:04 pm

If you would like to replace it like the factory built it then I wouldn't try it unless it was leaking. The factory build manual tells you to install the fuel line as almost the first thing on a chassis build up. it is fed though a fairly tight grommit in the backbone and it is suspended mid-way in an Elan, I don't know plus2's so someone else will have to help you with that. at the other end it goes though another grommit in the bulkhead. All I know is in an Elan its not going to be replaced with out the propellor shaft moving out of the way. It's your call, but if it ain't broke don't fix it. Or you will be running just like Ed has said.

Gary
User avatar
garyeanderson
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3128
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Massachusetts, U.S.A.

PostPost by: richard sprint » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:09 pm

What about fitting a very close fit (internal) connector (so as to not increase the outer diameter by much) between the new and old pipe then just draw it through? the grommets should take a very slightly increased dia...
richard sprint
Third Gear
Third Gear
 
Posts: 310
Joined: 02 Feb 2009

PostPost by: paddy » Wed Sep 01, 2010 10:42 pm

Get one of those nylon fish tapes (ie as electricians use to route cables through voids) and run it inside the old fuel line. Then use it to pull out the old line and pull in the new one :)

Paddy
1963 Elan S1
User avatar
paddy
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 1191
Joined: 27 Oct 2008
Location: Woking, Surrey

PostPost by: garyeanderson » Wed Sep 01, 2010 11:29 pm

OK, ONE more time This is not something you want to do is it ain't broke! The front and rear bulkheads are the easy parts, it the middle P clip that is going to get you. If you got all of those done then you need to get the line in between the frame portion on top of the differential and the body and that is usually compressed abit and then line up the hole where the fuel line comes through into the boot, Stuart has yet to explain why the fuel line needs replacement. I had my fuel line drop onto the propellor shaft, this was a 3/8 inch steel braided line and it sawed through the braided line till it pumped out all of the fuel. This was due to a poor instalation on my part and I didn't support the middle properly. Under my seat in the Elan had a half an inch of fuel puddled and I was lucky that raw fuel is somewhat difficult to light. I was stranded a quarter mile from the destnation and needed to get a ride home to get the pickup and trailer, another 45 minutes back and the day was shot. Today the replacement steel braided line lies inside the chassis backbone on the bottom tie-wrapped in place where gravity won't bite me again. Your Call I guess. Glad I am going to bed soon...

Looking forward. crummy photography, I missed the grommet but it looks like the one at the rear
Image

The middle clip, this is the part that is going to BITE you on the ASS
Image

Rear bulhead, further back the line passes above the chassis over the differential
Image
User avatar
garyeanderson
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3128
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Massachusetts, U.S.A.

PostPost by: stuartgb100 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:53 am

Thanks for the replies.

Gary, that's what I found.
The pipe seems to disappear from view in the prop area before reappearing
near the bellhousing.

I've narrowed a fuel starvation problem down to this pipe. Every other
component has been bypassed one at a time, and the fault only occurs
when this pipe is used.

Ed, I too have a new pipe in the cockpit, but I'd like to go back to the original route.

The tall block I'm using is wider than the twinc block, such that the mechanical
pump fouls the inner before it can be withdrawn, so I'm using an electric pump
in the boot.

On Saturday evening (just before leaving for the Oulton Gold Cup meeting) the
engine began making very expensive noises - I was only warming it up before
taking it out for a test run having solved a clutch problem. I rushed out to the
garage and turned it off.

Last night, tests showed it to be Nr2 cylinder, and when the head was off, it was
evident that nr2 exhaust seat had let go !!!

So engine is coming out.

Seems a good time to solve this fuel line problem, and also cut out the inner
bulkhead and fit a removable plate for removing the fuel pump. Even if I have to
drop the prop and gearbox it's not so bad.

Thanks for the help.

Regards,
Stuart.
stuartgb100
Fourth Gear
Fourth Gear
 
Posts: 901
Joined: 10 Sep 2005
Location: Cambridge UK

PostPost by: garyeanderson » Thu Sep 02, 2010 7:44 am

Hi Stuart

The block is wider at the exhaust side motor mount
elan-f15/crossflow-tall-block-measurement-t18272.html

THe Exhaust side looking from the flywheel end. The inset photo is that of a 711 (wide width) and the main picture is that of a 681 (narrow block)
Image

Seeing you have been here I would have thought that this would have been taken care of, did you narrow the block or reduce the exhaust side spacers by 11 mm. They should be 11/16 inch long or 17.5 mm now.

I'm not sure what or how the fuel pumps access plate bodge you are going on about, it should be in the same place as before?

All in all it sounds like there are some teething problems to fix. Did some one replace the valve seats on this head? Somehow I wouldn't think that an Exhaust seat should be dropping out at idle, I would have a qualified person inspect all of the work done previously.

Do you know the expression "when you pay peanuts, you get monkeys", sometimes that is the kind of info you get for free on the Internet. Lots of info on this site is the same, you need to read it, look at it, look elsewhere, compare, weigh all the information gathered. Then take you best guess as to what it all really means. Even then the guarantee is null and void. None of us are seeing what you are looking at so the help you get is coming from images that are conjured out of our imaginations from the info we receive from you the people that are posting these problems. Most times folk that have had the same issues before can help, other times you are on your own.

Gary

P.S. I guess that with the engine out, the next step is the gearbox out and the drive shaft too, so access to the Fuel line should be ok. I used a 3/8 inch i.d.line, thats a bit of an over kill but one of those safe than sorry approaches that I sometimes use. I think the stock is maybe 1/4 inch (Max), something like 5/16 or 8mm would be ok. That said, I am not sure what the 26r used in the day, could have been stock and they were pulling 145hp or there abouts. anyway its up to you what you fit and where it goes.
Last edited by garyeanderson on Thu Sep 02, 2010 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
garyeanderson
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 3128
Joined: 12 Sep 2003
Location: Massachusetts, U.S.A.

PostPost by: twincamman » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:48 am

AHHH WHEN I said 'centre of the chassis ' I meant upper right of the Centre section of the chassis ' as opposed to under --along side or over the chassis ---- the carbs were fed by a whacking great fuel pump from a Cessna airplane-5 or 6 pounds of pressure-replaced by another 5 psi unit -----BTW HELP -I need of buy two 32 mm chokes for the ?lan at the moment as the in the 'gently used' carbs I bought they had been had at by a bear or a Mongol with a pick ax -------any help out there???-- :shock: --ed--------------------well due to the overwhelming reply for 2 32 mm chokes I hied myself off to the local webber supplier and ordered 2 ----ed
dont close your eyes --you will miss the crash
User avatar
twincamman
Coveted Fifth Gear
Coveted Fifth Gear
 
Posts: 2953
Joined: 02 Oct 2003
Location: Niagara falls [slowly I turned]

Total Online:

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests