Lotus Elan

Fuel Injection on a budget.

PostPost by: jeff jackson » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:00 pm

I have read most of the threads on this (Re Tim Daffron and John Clegg) Solutions to fuel injecting the TC.
I agree the best solution maybe going with Jenveys and and expesive ECU like emerald.
BUT....
Has anyone actually got a set up that has begged stealed or borrowed to make a really efficient setup? I don't mind rummaging around the scrapyards, getting motorbike throttle bodies, building from scratch a megasquirt ECU and fabricating brackets for sensors etc.
There was an article in Practical Classics where this was done to an A40 ( an old Austin for you guy's in the states).
I would reallly like to know what throttle bodies would fit, I mean properly fit.

Sorry to bore everyone with this, but my D'ellorto's have been a nightmare to get to run properly, and I have balanced them - believe me! They just run far, far too rich.

Any thoughts gratefully received
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PostPost by: lotusanglia1965 » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:35 pm

...smaller jets...?
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PostPost by: pauljones » Thu Jan 14, 2010 7:59 pm

one of my plans was to get hold of an xr3i early type,and use that as a base.not exactly bang up to date stuff but just for a moment look at the stats,

1,the engine is very close to a twink not only in size,1600cc,but also the cvh is similar.ie a hemi
2,the power is almost the same too,orions came with cira 116bhp,3i's were a bit less.(off memory)
3,the boy racer brigade could ring them to about 130 to 140bhp using the standard jets.also a bit more work but you get the picture

so,it seemed to be a simple"up grade" for the twink. Rob the later model of its gear and transplant onto said twink.although it is basic and mostly mechanical,it does have a few electronic parts,that,over the years improved.and there are still some experts around that can reset the fuel pump and metering unit.

could it really be as cheep as finding a running injected cvh? i think there still around for ale money,oh and 1800cc were found in some sierra's with a type 9 box on the end.

now having read this, the question is probably why i didnt go that route.well its because im out of uk alot and dont have the time,so ive gone for the jenvey/emerald option..however i may have a go on the next one.

these are only my thoughts,nothing to serious.

good luck,Paul
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PostPost by: jeff jackson » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:11 pm

I have tried smaller jets. I have read and re -read the how to set your Weber and Dellorto's book, that you can get from Amazon. One suggestion was fitting another back Exhaust box from Sue Miller. I have a bespoke Stainless unit, the suggestion was maybe I have not got enough "back pressure"
Will the inlet manifold of a Ford CVH fit properly though?
The best bit is finding another Pompey fan - I thought I was the only one......
PUP.
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PostPost by: pauljones » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:15 pm

another Pompey fan.....on here....where you live?

back to the point,im not sure if the manifold would fit or not,havent tried it.But as the injectors are completly different a besoke plenum would have to be made with a strong enougth piece to hold them at a good angle..that to me would be a welded tube,sealed at the rear with the air valve at the front.unless the escort item can be made to fit.

dont forget price was the issue here, so were not talking F1 specs,just getting it to work.
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PostPost by: jeff jackson » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:38 pm

I was born 100 yards from Fratton Park. I now live in Poole.
Anyhoo, you are right its a budget, so I don't mind making up a bit of fabricated tube to make a manifold fit.
So If I get all the bits from a CVH, sensors et al it could work?

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PostPost by: Bruce Crowthorne » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:43 am

Don'y know what ECU is on a CVH engine, but I wouldn't expect it to be re-mappable.
So it would be hit (or more likeley) miss on getting the mixture right....

My son uses a Megasquirt - the version that does ignition and injection - on a VW Fox (he is in the US) and can't praise it too highly.

Anyone who tunes the K Series engine in an Elise uses an Emerald. But bear in mind that it is a plug in replacement for the standard ECU. I have played with one on my Elise and it really is a good piece of kit and easy to use if you are PC literate.

There was an article on here where someone had done a load of work in getting injection going on a twincam, it will be in the archive somewhere.

I love the idea of the engineering challenge, but it would be cheaper and easier to just buy a set of Webers or to pay someone to set up your Dellortos..... but much less entertaining!

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PostPost by: msd1107 » Fri Jan 15, 2010 9:58 am

The original reference was here:

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=15222&view=previous

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PostPost by: pauljones » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:19 pm

Bruce.

I think your right on all acounts,thats partly the reason i went with the emerald system,also for speed and ease.ect.

I was mearly thinking that as the xr3i and like minded variants are very similar to are twinks,then the settings would be accurate enougth to start hot and cold with the minimum of fuss.

as for the retuning of the ecu,it is possible using certain chips but would have to be done by a proper specialist.

For me i was looking at the fun factor too.

Paul
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Fri Jan 15, 2010 12:37 pm

Paul

I was going to use as much as I could of a Mondeo,long story,but I believe the ECU has basic settings but re-learns the settings after being disconnected,would it learn Twinc settings?
Never found out but would be worth a punt..

John :wink:
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PostPost by: tdafforn » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:30 pm

I think the system that John Clegg has is probably as close as you are going to get to shoestring PI..
My system (not fully installed) is simillar with throttle bodies from Honda CBR600, manifold adapters home made, crank trigger kit from QED, megasquirt ECU..
(Am currently playing with the idea of getting rid of the +2 (Mad I know) and buying a westfield XI kit, so may be in the market to let the throttle bodies and adapters go for a reasonable sum)
Cheers
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PostPost by: elansprint » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:22 am

Jeff the way to go is megasquirt for cost the system with bike throttle bodies & megasquirt produces just as much power as emerald/omex/mbe & jenveys i found an article where someone had swapped from mega & bike bodies to emerald & jenveys & in 170bhp the later prduced 3bhp more you just have to do a bit more messing about. John i think the learning ability of the mondeo ecu is adaptive to your driviing style & changing settings slightly for optimum efficiency would not self map to a twink
Ian
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:54 am

Ian

Driving style...beg to disagree....

"I think the learning ability of the mondeo ecu is adaptive to your driviing style & changing settings slightly for optimum efficiency would not self map to a twink"

Surely the ECU is a dumb machine and can only interpret the exhaust mixture relative to the throttle opening and other inputs and will try to achieve Lambda at most times,leaning out at "less spirited" driving and richening the mixture while "giving it some"and should operate in the range 1600cc-2500cc,100bhp-250bhp?

Am sure somewhere in the manual it says that after power disconnection for some time the engine will run rough while the ECU re-learns its settings??

John :wink:

P.S. The only reason I didn't use the Mondeo ECU is because the Ford injectors are high impedance and the motorcyle ones I'm using are low impedance
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PostPost by: mikealdren » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:42 am

I suspect it's more a question of how much the system will adapt. The system will adapt (fine tune?) to the installation in an individual car (and maybe how it is used - temperatures etc) but may not adapt to major changes such as new manifolds, intake designs etc?

Anybody know the real answer?

Mike
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PostPost by: john.p.clegg » Sat Jan 16, 2010 12:02 pm

Why not? all it has to do is sample the exhaust gas and alter the fuel pulse accordingly...or am I over simplifying it?

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